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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:23 pm

@Spiegel wrote:
Realistically speaking, she just went through a traumatic experience involving a dinosaur. This is the kind of thing that leads to post traumatic stress, and symptom wise her releasing the dinosaurs goes completely against that.

Also, we are meant to believe she's evaluated her whole existence as well as the dinosaurs in just a few brief moments.

Finally, she's 10 or so. She may be "smart" but I dont recall anything that makes me believe she's so intelligent that she could make the desicion fo free the dinosaurs. It also contradicts itself, she's so smart she understands the complex meanings of cloning and life but isn't smart enough to comprehend that something that just tried to eat her should be allowed to live like she should. How can you grasp the idea of life, especially "artificial life," but not comprehend the lives you put into danger. Is she a child for an adult?

To me it just seems too weak a plot point for me to buy. Again, back to my main issue with this film, create a story line in which we see the characters develop or we can at least grasp who they are instead of flooding us with action.
My interpretation was that it was gut move on her part, Like the child that she was she pressed the button without thinking of the grand repercussions. She just saw animal dying and reacted. Having a villain do it would have been the easy and generic solution but having a child do it makes it more interesting and grey. I'm just glad that it wasn't Claire that pressed the button, now that would of been a horrible decision.
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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:04 am

@Herrerasaurus wrote:
@Spiegel wrote:
Realistically speaking, she just went through a traumatic experience involving a dinosaur. This is the kind of thing that leads to post traumatic stress, and symptom wise her releasing the dinosaurs goes completely against that.

Also, we are meant to believe she's evaluated her whole existence as well as the dinosaurs in just a few brief moments.

Finally, she's 10 or so. She may be "smart" but I dont recall anything that makes me believe she's so intelligent that she could make the desicion fo free the dinosaurs. It also contradicts itself, she's so smart she understands the complex meanings of cloning and life but isn't smart enough to comprehend that something that just tried to eat her should be allowed to live like she should. How can you grasp the idea of life, especially "artificial life," but not comprehend the lives you put into danger. Is she a child for an adult?

To me it just seems too weak a plot point for me to buy. Again, back to my main issue with this film, create a story line in which we see the characters develop or we can at least grasp who they are instead of flooding us with action.
My interpretation was that it was gut move on her part, Like the child that she was she pressed the button without thinking of the grand repercussions. She just saw animal dying and reacted. Having a villain do it would have been the easy and generic solution but having a child do it makes it more interesting and grey. I'm just glad that it wasn't Claire that pressed the button, now that would of been a horrible decision.

It's not so much that she did it, it's the accompanying line. "They're alive, just like me". Why not "I couldn't just let them die, my mother would have saved them all" or something like that. Maybe something referencing her grandfather. Anything but what she said because her saying that was like her saying she had a close bond with the dinosaurs which feeds back into my original statement. How did she feel so tied into being a clone in such a short time that she felt the need to save them? Especially considering one of those hybrid clones had been trying to kill her for a large portion of the movie.

I feel bad basically making the same statements over and over but it's the delivery of these plots and themes that leave the movie subpar in my mind.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:27 am

@Spiegel wrote:
@Herrerasaurus wrote:
@Spiegel wrote:
Realistically speaking, she just went through a traumatic experience involving a dinosaur. This is the kind of thing that leads to post traumatic stress, and symptom wise her releasing the dinosaurs goes completely against that.

Also, we are meant to believe she's evaluated her whole existence as well as the dinosaurs in just a few brief moments.

Finally, she's 10 or so. She may be "smart" but I dont recall anything that makes me believe she's so intelligent that she could make the desicion fo free the dinosaurs. It also contradicts itself, she's so smart she understands the complex meanings of cloning and life but isn't smart enough to comprehend that something that just tried to eat her should be allowed to live like she should. How can you grasp the idea of life, especially "artificial life," but not comprehend the lives you put into danger. Is she a child for an adult?

To me it just seems too weak a plot point for me to buy. Again, back to my main issue with this film, create a story line in which we see the characters develop or we can at least grasp who they are instead of flooding us with action.
My interpretation was that it was gut move on her part, Like the child that she was she pressed the button without thinking of the grand repercussions. She just saw animal dying and reacted. Having a villain do it would have been the easy and generic solution but having a child do it makes it more interesting and grey. I'm just glad that it wasn't Claire that pressed the button, now that would of been a horrible decision.

It's not so much that she did it, it's the accompanying line. "They're alive, just like me". Why not "I couldn't just let them die, my mother would have saved them all" or something like that. Maybe something referencing her grandfather. Anything but what she said because her saying that was like her saying she had a close bond with the dinosaurs which feeds back into my original statement. How did she feel so tied into being a clone in such a short time that she felt the need to save them? Especially considering one of those hybrid clones had been trying to kill her for a large portion of the movie.

I feel bad basically making the same statements over and over but it's the delivery of these plots and themes that leave the movie subpar in my mind.
oh no thats fair, I just think you might be overthinking the situation but thats just me. As for the movie and its issue, I think it has a lot going for it but it doesn't really explore those things enough in my opinion. Still enjoyed the movie a ton though but it could of been something truly great. Wish that for jw3 Colin would share his ideas to a better writer and have Bayona direct but who knows colin may learn from these criticisms.
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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:32 am

@Herrerasaurus wrote:
@Spiegel wrote:
@Herrerasaurus wrote:
@Spiegel wrote:
Realistically speaking, she just went through a traumatic experience involving a dinosaur. This is the kind of thing that leads to post traumatic stress, and symptom wise her releasing the dinosaurs goes completely against that.

Also, we are meant to believe she's evaluated her whole existence as well as the dinosaurs in just a few brief moments.

Finally, she's 10 or so. She may be "smart" but I dont recall anything that makes me believe she's so intelligent that she could make the desicion fo free the dinosaurs. It also contradicts itself, she's so smart she understands the complex meanings of cloning and life but isn't smart enough to comprehend that something that just tried to eat her should be allowed to live like she should. How can you grasp the idea of life, especially "artificial life," but not comprehend the lives you put into danger. Is she a child for an adult?

To me it just seems too weak a plot point for me to buy. Again, back to my main issue with this film, create a story line in which we see the characters develop or we can at least grasp who they are instead of flooding us with action.
My interpretation was that it was gut move on her part, Like the child that she was she pressed the button without thinking of the grand repercussions. She just saw animal dying and reacted. Having a villain do it would have been the easy and generic solution but having a child do it makes it more interesting and grey. I'm just glad that it wasn't Claire that pressed the button, now that would of been a horrible decision.

It's not so much that she did it, it's the accompanying line. "They're alive, just like me". Why not "I couldn't just let them die, my mother would have saved them all" or something like that. Maybe something referencing her grandfather. Anything but what she said because her saying that was like her saying she had a close bond with the dinosaurs which feeds back into my original statement. How did she feel so tied into being a clone in such a short time that she felt the need to save them? Especially considering one of those hybrid clones had been trying to kill her for a large portion of the movie.

I feel bad basically making the same statements over and over but it's the delivery of these plots and themes that leave the movie subpar in my mind.
oh no thats fair, I just think you might be overthinking the situation but thats just me. As for the movie and its issue, I think it has a lot going for it but it doesn't really explore those things enough in my opinion. Still enjoyed the movie a ton though but it could of been something truly great. Wish that for jw3 Colin would share his ideas to a better writer and have Bayona direct but who knows colin may learn from these criticisms.

I absolutely agree, I enjoyed the movie by itself but dont love it as a part of the franchise. It has some good things, I just wish the delivery was better. Maybe JW3 will tie it together well enough to help FK along.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:23 pm

@Spiegel wrote:
@Herrerasaurus wrote:
@Spiegel wrote:
Realistically speaking, she just went through a traumatic experience involving a dinosaur. This is the kind of thing that leads to post traumatic stress, and symptom wise her releasing the dinosaurs goes completely against that.

Also, we are meant to believe she's evaluated her whole existence as well as the dinosaurs in just a few brief moments.

Finally, she's 10 or so. She may be "smart" but I dont recall anything that makes me believe she's so intelligent that she could make the desicion fo free the dinosaurs. It also contradicts itself, she's so smart she understands the complex meanings of cloning and life but isn't smart enough to comprehend that something that just tried to eat her should be allowed to live like she should. How can you grasp the idea of life, especially "artificial life," but not comprehend the lives you put into danger. Is she a child for an adult?

To me it just seems too weak a plot point for me to buy. Again, back to my main issue with this film, create a story line in which we see the characters develop or we can at least grasp who they are instead of flooding us with action.
My interpretation was that it was gut move on her part, Like the child that she was she pressed the button without thinking of the grand repercussions. She just saw animal dying and reacted. Having a villain do it would have been the easy and generic solution but having a child do it makes it more interesting and grey. I'm just glad that it wasn't Claire that pressed the button, now that would of been a horrible decision.

It's not so much that she did it, it's the accompanying line. "They're alive, just like me". Why not "I couldn't just let them die, my mother would have saved them all" or something like that. Maybe something referencing her grandfather. Anything but what she said because her saying that was like her saying she had a close bond with the dinosaurs which feeds back into my original statement. How did she feel so tied into being a clone in such a short time that she felt the need to save them? Especially considering one of those hybrid clones had been trying to kill her for a large portion of the movie.

I feel bad basically making the same statements over and over but it's the delivery of these plots and themes that leave the movie subpar in my mind.
The line reminded me a lot of the extended cut of Origin of Mewtwo where the professor's daughter clone psychically tells Mewtwo that "You are alive, and life is wonderful." as her clone body is dying.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:32 pm

@CT-1138 wrote:
@Spiegel wrote:
@Herrerasaurus wrote:
@Spiegel wrote:
Realistically speaking, she just went through a traumatic experience involving a dinosaur. This is the kind of thing that leads to post traumatic stress, and symptom wise her releasing the dinosaurs goes completely against that.

Also, we are meant to believe she's evaluated her whole existence as well as the dinosaurs in just a few brief moments.

Finally, she's 10 or so. She may be "smart" but I dont recall anything that makes me believe she's so intelligent that she could make the desicion fo free the dinosaurs. It also contradicts itself, she's so smart she understands the complex meanings of cloning and life but isn't smart enough to comprehend that something that just tried to eat her should be allowed to live like she should. How can you grasp the idea of life, especially "artificial life," but not comprehend the lives you put into danger. Is she a child for an adult?

To me it just seems too weak a plot point for me to buy. Again, back to my main issue with this film, create a story line in which we see the characters develop or we can at least grasp who they are instead of flooding us with action.
My interpretation was that it was gut move on her part, Like the child that she was she pressed the button without thinking of the grand repercussions. She just saw animal dying and reacted. Having a villain do it would have been the easy and generic solution but having a child do it makes it more interesting and grey. I'm just glad that it wasn't Claire that pressed the button, now that would of been a horrible decision.

It's not so much that she did it, it's the accompanying line. "They're alive, just like me". Why not "I couldn't just let them die, my mother would have saved them all" or something like that. Maybe something referencing her grandfather. Anything but what she said because her saying that was like her saying she had a close bond with the dinosaurs which feeds back into my original statement. How did she feel so tied into being a clone in such a short time that she felt the need to save them? Especially considering one of those hybrid clones had been trying to kill her for a large portion of the movie.

I feel bad basically making the same statements over and over but it's the delivery of these plots and themes that leave the movie subpar in my mind.
The line reminded me a lot of the extended cut of Origin of Mewtwo where the professor's daughter clone psychically tells Mewtwo that "You are alive, and life is wonderful." as her clone body is dying.

How did you feel about it overall? I feel like it could have been rock solid with just a little development, but misses the mark because it feels so forced.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:41 pm

I didn't mind the line. Like I said, it reminded of something that really tugged at the heartstrings when I first saw it, so I have emotional investment in it.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:53 pm

@Spiegel wrote:
How did you feel about it overall? I feel like it could have been rock solid with just a little development, but misses the mark because it feels so forced.

It could be developed more in JW3.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:04 pm

@Dr. Wu wrote:
@Spiegel wrote:
How did you feel about it overall? I feel like it could have been rock solid with just a little development, but misses the mark because it feels so forced.

It could be developed more in JW3.

It could and should, but we'll see. Even if it does it kind of falls in line with people referring to FK is a filler.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:07 pm

JP3 is way more filler than JW:FK IMO. This is definitely a set up film but it has more stuff to just be filler.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:35 pm

@Dr. Wu wrote:
JP3 is way more filler than JW:FK IMO. This is definitely a set up film but it has more stuff to just be filler.

This...remember JP3 had literally NO script. Love it or hate it, FK had a script.
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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:50 pm

You can call JP3 a filler in the sense that it was needed to complete a trilogy. However, the story is self contained to the point where it could be released as the only film of the JP3 series. It would need just a bit more dialogue to explain what InGen was/is but could stand alone.

FK doesn't have that. It's an absolute must to have a follow up and a previous movie. If you watched as the only film in the series you'd have a million questions and it would only create more. That's why I call it a filler, as the plot seems to be more in line with taking us from A to C then explaining to us what B actually is.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:53 pm

Jurassic Park III completed nothing - TLW finished out a duology, then JP3 was pointlessly tacked on to milk the franchise.

At least FK had a plot. JP3 had no plot!

OOC, I'd be interested in knowing how the fans who dislike FK feel about Empire Strikes Back, Two Towers, or for that matter Avengers: Infinity War? None of those movies resolve their larger story by the end - and those movies are generally considered to be genius.
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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:59 pm

@Robotpo wrote:
BTW, do the fans who dislike FK also dislike Empire Strikes Back, Two Towers, for for that matter Avengers: Infinity War? Because none of those movies resolve their larger story by the end. And people generally love those movies, so...

All of these movies have proper story structures, including a satisfying climax. Fallen Kingdom's climax is kind of underwhelming and weird.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:07 pm

What exactly was FK's plot?

Out of 5 films, this is the only one without a clear resolution. The only film that leaves a gaping hole at the end. I went in expecting another self contained movie. Each is mostly it's own story related to a central idea. Almost like a collection of stories in the same franchise.

Both SW and LOTR are like sagas, each one relying on the next to carry on a singular story.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:11 pm

^^ It's about Benjamin Lockwood's attempt to save the last dinosaurs on Isla Nublar, with the assistance of Owen and Claire. Eli Mills hijacks these efforts into selling the rescued dinosaurs/a designer hybrid on the black market. Owen and Claire (and Stiggy) generally mess this up, and the hybrid is released and runs amok. At the end, hybrid dead, dinosaurs saved/released into the wild, and Owen, Claire, and Lockwood's granddaughter, now a "family" unit.
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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:37 pm

@Spiegel wrote:
What exactly was FK's plot?

Out of 5 films, this is the only one without a clear resolution. The only film that leaves a gaping hole at the end. I went in expecting another self contained movie. Each is mostly it's own story related to a central idea. Almost like a collection of stories in the same franchise.

Both SW and LOTR are like sagas, each one relying on the next to carry on a singular story.

I'm fairly certain Trevorrow said that that was intentional. Whereas previous films were more episodic and self-contained, he wants the JW trilogy to be an overarching storyline.
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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:15 am

Yeah, Trevorrow said that.
But Spiegel will find something to say against that anyway (kidding Razz )

Maisie's final line got me so emotional the first time. Blame it on Giacchino's music.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:52 am

@1morey wrote:
@Spiegel wrote:
What exactly was FK's plot?

Out of 5 films, this is the only one without a clear resolution. The only film that leaves a gaping hole at the end. I went in expecting another self contained movie. Each is mostly it's own story related to a central idea. Almost like a collection of stories in the same franchise.

Both SW and LOTR are like sagas, each one relying on the next to carry on a singular story.

I'm fairly certain Trevorrow said that that was intentional. Whereas previous films were more episodic and self-contained, he wants the JW trilogy to be an overarching storyline.

That’s a perfectly fine answer and it makes total sense logically, but I still felt Fallen kingdom was lacking in feeling like a GREAT bridge film. I think there’s a little more they could have set up and smarter with what they presented.

Ultimately though JW3 will probably make or break how I feel about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:37 pm

J.A. Bayona confirmed the Brachiosaurus that died was the first one we saw.

https://screenrant.com/jurassic-world-fallen-kingdom-park-connection-brachiosaurus/

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:44 pm

@owenpratt wrote:
Yeah, Trevorrow said that.
But Spiegel will find something to say against that anyway (kidding Razz )

Maisie's final line got me so emotional the first time. Blame it on Giacchino's music.

I will say something against it for you Owen, because its a dirty job but someone has to do it. Haha

See, I'm cool with that being Trevvorrow's goal but why didnt he set up Jurassic World to imply more was to come really? The only thing they did was show Wu leaving with some genetic material, which is ok, but in comparison JW:FK really leaves us open to the idea that there needs to be another film to resolve what we were left with.

It doesnt really matter, it just seems JW closed out as being resolved really. Park is shut down, people got off the the island, and dinosaurs rule Nublar again.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:50 pm

Did the original Star Wars film set up Empire Strikes Back? Both ANH and JW were never sure to be success before their release.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:54 pm

@Dr. Wu wrote:
Did the original Star Wars film set up Empire Strikes Back? Both ANH and JW had no guarantee to have a sequels.

JW didnt feel like it needed a sequel to really resolve any issue unless you were really into the Wu/Hoskins militarized dinosaurs idea.

It doesnt really matter though, it's not really anything that bugs me except the idea if this is supposed to be a saga, the first movie doesnt really make you believe that full heartedly. Again though, it doesnt really bug me. Like you said plenty of movies dont really portray the need for a follow up

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:13 pm

@Spiegel wrote:
@owenpratt wrote:
Yeah, Trevorrow said that.
But Spiegel will find something to say against that anyway (kidding Razz )

Maisie's final line got me so emotional the first time. Blame it on Giacchino's music.

I will say something against it for you Owen, because its a dirty job but someone has to do it. Haha

See, I'm cool with that being Trevvorrow's goal but why didnt he set up Jurassic World to imply more was to come really? The only thing they did was show Wu leaving with some genetic material, which is ok, but in comparison JW:FK really leaves us open to the idea that there needs to be another film to resolve what we were left with.

It doesnt really matter, it just seems JW closed out as being resolved really. Park is shut down, people got off the the island, and dinosaurs rule Nublar again.

Thank you, I will do my dirty job too ahah

Sure FK sets up JW3 more than JW set up FK. I just still found FK to feel like one story that has a beginning and a end, although of course knowing it's part of a bigger picture, but not to the point to feel like a filler.

They needed to take the dinosaurs out of Nublar, they do.
They open an auction, they close the auction.
They introduced a new dino villain, they kill it.
Claire and Owen start separated and immature, they end together and matured.
They tease Maisie's mother mystery, it's revealed before the movie ends.
They introduced human clone, they made her make the climax choice.
They introduced human villains, they all die before the movie ends.

Of course FK also sets up plot points for JW3, but I felt it enough auto-conclusive.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:16 pm

I was curious about them continuing the Wu/Hoskins militarized dinosaurs storyline as long it didn't go full on Dino Riders.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:17 pm

@Dr. Wu wrote:
J.A. Bayona confirmed the Brachiosaurus that died was the first one we saw.

https://screenrant.com/jurassic-world-fallen-kingdom-park-connection-brachiosaurus/

That makes it even more emotional! Wish it was confirmed in the film though by Claire when she was in the tracking room.
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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:40 pm

2 hour spoiler podcast interviews with Bayona & Trevorrow:

https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine/jurassic-world-fallen-kingdom-spoiler-special-ft-ja-bayona-colin-trevorrow
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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:41 pm

Maisie pressing the button and releasing the dinos actually creates a moral dilemma if innocent people on the mainland get killed by them. But I doubt the next film will address this.
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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:52 pm

Am I the only one that hates the fact it’s the original brachiosaurus? Let that girl die in peace, not lava.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom SPOILER thread   Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:51 am

@Dilophosaurus wrote:
@Dr. Wu wrote:
J.A. Bayona confirmed the Brachiosaurus that died was the first one we saw.

https://screenrant.com/jurassic-world-fallen-kingdom-park-connection-brachiosaurus/

That makes it even more emotional! Wish it was confirmed in the film though by Claire when she was in the tracking room.

But is that also the same Brachiosaurus we see on ruined Main Street?

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