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 Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2019 12:38 pm

@Tyrant Lizard wrote:
So Manos: The Hands of Fate and Disaster Movie tried while Fallen Kingdom didn't?

To a degree, yes. Not only that, but at least those 2 movies had nothing of worth to damage. And Manos barely had a badget. With the JP franchise, I expect FAR more.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2019 4:13 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
To a degree, yes. Not only that, but at least those 2 movies had nothing of worth to damage. And Manos barely had a badget. With the JP franchise, I expect FAR more.

I can understand the bolded for sure, but the suggestion that somehow something like Disaster Movie or Birdemic 'tried harder' than FK is baffling and, quite frankly, objectively wrong. For all of it's faults, and it does have many, FK does as least try, which is more than I can say for something like JP3, which is so inconsequential that it could be removed from the canon entirely and nobody would notice.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2019 4:22 pm

Looking at it structurally is that both TLW and FK have a lot of common ground and shared story elements in it. Those most are that both go to the island to do something with the dinosaurs tied to saving them or having an angle of conservation for them (preserve/document and move to a safe island), there's a plan to take the dinosaurs off the island that goes awry (Ludlow/InGen Hunters desire for JP San Diego and the camp sabotage from Nick and Sarah/Wheatley and crew doing the ol' switharoo from Sanctuary to Lockwood's estate for the auction), both deal with the concept of the dinosaurs coming to the mainland for less than honorable motivations as greed is always the central theme of the films. For this we have the T. rex in San Diego and dinosaurs being auctioned at the Lockwood estate and thereby going open-source, and both feature the dinosaurs on the mainland causing chaos to some degree (San Diego Incident, Sequence with the Indoraptor somewhat, and the ending of FK with all the dinosaurs free-roaming practically.

To hate one is basically to hate both though in the base structure of either film.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2019 4:45 pm

@TyrannosaurTJ wrote:
Looking at it structurally is that both TLW and FK have a lot of common ground and shared story elements in it. Those most are that both go to the island to do something with the dinosaurs tied to saving them or having an angle of conservation for them (preserve/document and move to a safe island), there's a plan to take the dinosaurs off the island that goes awry (Ludlow/InGen Hunters desire for JP San Diego and the camp sabotage from Nick and Sarah/Wheatley and crew doing the ol' switharoo from Sanctuary to Lockwood's estate for the auction), both deal with the concept of the dinosaurs coming to the mainland for less than honorable motivations as greed is always the central theme of the films. For this we have the T. rex in San Diego and dinosaurs being auctioned at the Lockwood estate and thereby going open-source, and both feature the dinosaurs on the mainland causing chaos to some degree (San Diego Incident, Sequence with the Indoraptor somewhat, and the ending of FK with all the dinosaurs free-roaming practically.

To hate one is basically to hate both though in the base structure of either film.

To sort of jump ship towards the other side of the debate for a moment, the structuring of both TLW and FK are reasons why they both lose marks in my book. I never really cared for the San Diego sequence in TLW all that much. Going from Isla Sorna to the mainland for the final act always did hit me as a pretty jarring shift in tone and setting, and it did kinda take me out of the film to an extent. Not enough for it to kill my overall enjoyment of the film, but enough to knock it down a peg or so in my book. With that said, the San Diego sequence only accounts for the final act of the film, and everything that came before the final act was excellent imho.

For me FK suffers from the same problem, only with the negatives amplified. Instead of a jarring tonal shift for the final act of the film, we get a jarring tonal shift for the entire second half of the film, and I just don't feel that the second half of FK was able to pick up any sort of momentum, nor did I feel it accomplished it's goal in creating tension or atmosphere. Tonally, it hit me as less like the kitchen sequence in JP and more like a Resident Evil film imho.

My point is that in emulating some of the structural elements of TLW, I feel like FK took some of the worst elements of TLW and amplified them to the Nth degree.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2019 5:02 pm

I felt the same way, only about JW - its trying to be both a reboot/remake and a sequel, plus mixing goofy sitcom humor and characters with mostly bloodless, slick violence just made it seem like it was lurching from being one movie to another for two hours.

I also can't stand how JP3 just SLAMS to a halt after 90-or-so minutes, thought if they had moved the last Raptor scene to before the boat attack and let THAT be the climax, (as in the earlier script), it would have been less jarring IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2019 5:23 pm

I felt the opposite about JW. It hit me as an exhilarating ride from beginning to end. A film that grabs you by the scruff of the neck and never lets you go. I can see how one could make the argument that it goes at too brisk a pace, and I'd agree with that sentiment to a point, but I don't feel as though the pacing is jarring in the slightest. I feel like JW actually flows pretty seamlessly into itself, hence why the big final battle at the end of the film actually feels earned imho.

Believe it or not, I actually think JP3 is paced pretty well too. No real jarring tonal shifts, no point where the film loses momentum. It's actually one of the few things the film does well. But yeah, the ending just comes out of nowhere and the raptor scene really is an anti-climax. The Spino boat scene (minus the Barney) would have definitely made for a much better climax.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2019 11:32 pm

@Tyrant Lizard wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
To a degree, yes. Not only that, but at least those 2 movies had nothing of worth to damage. And Manos barely had a badget. With the JP franchise, I expect FAR more.

I can understand the bolded for sure, but the suggestion that somehow something like Disaster Movie or Birdemic 'tried harder' than FK is baffling and, quite frankly, objectively wrong. For all of it's faults, and it does have many, FK does as least try, which is more than I can say for something like JP3, which is so inconsequential that it could be removed from the canon entirely and nobody would notice.

I guess that so much of the movie was so bad to me, that the issues it raised were outright lost on me. Even you yourself said when I first commented on it that "it tried to be smarter, but failed to do so in a way that felt half-baked". Or something like that.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 20, 2019 1:47 am

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
I guess that so much of the movie was so bad to me, that the issues it raised were outright lost on me. Even you yourself said when I first commented on it that "it tried to be smarter, but failed to do so in a way that felt half-baked". Or something like that.

Can't remember what I said exactly, but the point is that I do feel as though it tried. Whether or not it succeeded is certainly another story entirely, but I'll at least give the film credit for trying if nothing else.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 23, 2019 11:43 am

Don't really feel that Fallen Kingdom is as bad in most people's estimation as you seem to think, Rhedo. Was at Target the other day and they were restocking blu rays, among the dvds they were restocking was at least 10 copies of Fallen Kingdom. So it's still being bought in enough quantities.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 23, 2019 12:40 pm

@Sickle_Claw wrote:
Don't really feel that Fallen Kingdom is as bad in most people's estimation as you seem to think, Rhedo. Was at Target the other day and they were restocking blu rays, among the dvds they were restocking was at least 10 copies of Fallen Kingdom. So it's still being bought in enough quantities.

But how much of that is due to the the fact that other then Godzilla-which is semi-detached from the whole dinosaur movie genre-that it has no real competition via other dinosaur movies getting made? I gurantee you that if somebody-wither Peter Jackson or Gullimero del Toro-were to remake The Lost World, Gwangi, or finally make one the the unfinished dinosaur movies that Willis O'Brian or Ray Harryhuasen planned to made, then people wouldn't be buying so much of those movies due the more competition.

Not only that, but I don't see the movies get bought at the store that I'm working at. I see the toys and LEGO sets get bought quite a bit, but the movies themselves? Not so much.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 23, 2019 1:22 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
But how much of that is due to the the fact that other then Godzilla-which is semi-detached from the whole dinosaur movie genre-that it has no real competition via other dinosaur movies getting made? I gurantee you that if somebody-wither Peter Jackson or Gullimero del Toro-were to remake The Lost World, Gwangi, or finally make one the the unfinished dinosaur movies that Willis O'Brian or Ray Harryhuasen planned to made, then people wouldn't be buying so much of those movies due the more competition.

Not only that, but I don't see the movies get bought at the store that I'm working at. I see the toys and LEGO sets get bought quite a bit, but the movies themselves? Not so much.

I don't think lack of competition really has anything to do with it. If Gwangi or something were remade, I don't see it making much of a dent. More than anything, it's brand recognition. Jurassic Park/World has built up one of the more successful brands in recent memory. Maybe not quite on par with Star Wars or Marvel, but enough so that even a film with poor reviews and bad word of mouth like Fallen Kingdom can still make over a billion dollars and rake in the blue ray and DVD dollars as well. That isn't to say that the law of diminishing returns won't take effect at some point.....it happens with every non-MCU franchise. Only to say that Jurassic Park/World is still one of the most recognizable brands in all of cinema.

As far as the general consensus of the film's overall quality, it seems to have a handful of extremely vocal detractors that consider it one of the worst films of the last decade, a handful of JP fans that love it and consider it one of-if not the best sequel in the franchise, while the majority of people didn't think too much of it but would still watch it if it came on TV cause it's a Jurassic Park film, and even the worst Jurassic Park film is still pretty entertaining to most people.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 23, 2019 3:25 pm

@Tyrant Lizard wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
But how much of that is due to the the fact that other then Godzilla-which is semi-detached from the whole dinosaur movie genre-that it has no real competition via other dinosaur movies getting made? I gurantee you that if somebody-wither Peter Jackson or Gullimero del Toro-were to remake The Lost World, Gwangi, or finally make one the the unfinished dinosaur movies that Willis O'Brian or Ray Harryhuasen planned to made, then people wouldn't be buying so much of those movies due the more competition.

Not only that, but I don't see the movies get bought at the store that I'm working at. I see the toys and LEGO sets get bought quite a bit, but the movies themselves? Not so much.

I don't think lack of competition really has anything to do with it. If Gwangi or something were remade, I don't see it making much of a dent. More than anything, it's brand recognition. Jurassic Park/World has built up one of the more successful brands in recent memory. Maybe not quite on par with Star Wars or Marvel, but enough so that even a film with poor reviews and bad word of mouth like Fallen Kingdom can still make over a billion dollars and rake in the blue ray and DVD dollars as well. That isn't to say that the law of diminishing returns won't take effect at some point.....it happens with every non-MCU franchise. Only to say that Jurassic Park/World is still one of the most recognizable brands in all of cinema.

As far as the general consensus of the film's overall quality, it seems to have a handful of extremely vocal detractors that consider it one of the worst films of the last decade, a handful of JP fans that love it and consider it one of-if not the best sequel in the franchise, while the majority of people didn't think too much of it but would still watch it if it came on TV cause it's a Jurassic Park film, and even the worst Jurassic Park film is still pretty entertaining to most people.

But how long can the JP franchise be propped up by brand recognition, toys/Lego sets, and sites? It's not like other franchises which are far more heavily established like the Godzilla, the MCU, Star Trek, etc.

Also, when I posted the one article about Colin talking about more JP movies after JW3/JP6 on the one FB movie group I'm a part of, not a single person, many of them long time JP fans like myself, wanted any of it. And JW:FK was the movie many of them cited as being the reason.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 23, 2019 7:20 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
Also, when I posted the one article about Colin talking about more JP movies after JW3/JP6 on the one FB movie group I'm a part of, not a single person, many of them long time JP fans like myself, wanted any of it. And JW:FK was the movie many of them cited as being the reason.

That's something specific to your experience. A lot of people were very vocal about not wanting a 2nd JW film either, and yet it made 1.3 billion dollars. Having very vocal detractors isn't reason enough not to make a movie when it's almost guaranteed to make a billion dollars.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Aug 24, 2019 12:09 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Sickle_Claw wrote:
Don't really feel that Fallen Kingdom is as bad in most people's estimation as you seem to think, Rhedo. Was at Target the other day and they were restocking blu rays, among the dvds they were restocking was at least 10 copies of Fallen Kingdom. So it's still being bought in enough quantities.

But how much of that is due to the the fact that other then Godzilla-which is semi-detached from the whole dinosaur movie genre-that it has no real competition via other dinosaur movies getting made? I gurantee you that if somebody-wither Peter Jackson or Gullimero del Toro-were to remake The Lost World, Gwangi, or finally make one the the unfinished dinosaur movies that Willis O'Brian or Ray Harryhuasen planned to made, then people wouldn't be buying so much of those movies due the more competition.

Not only that, but I don't see the movies get bought at the store that I'm working at. I see the toys and LEGO sets get bought quite a bit, but the movies themselves? Not so much.

Not to be pedantic, but Jackson made a dinosaur movie that almost nobody liked (and he now seems to be retired from big-budget filmmaking), and del Toro's films have never big box-office draws. Also Harryhausen and O'Brien are not known to most audiences.

IMO you'd be happier just letting go and not spending the next however many years in angst about something over which you have no control. Having spent a lot of my life as a huge SW nerd, I'm happier having accepted that Disney and the ST are not going where I would have wanted and getting what I can out of the franchise going forward, rather than wasting energy on TheForce.net or wherever explaining why the sequels suck. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Sep 29, 2019 6:44 am

I've been wanting to rewatch it again, but I still feel pretty good about the film. I might call it my least favorite sequel for honesty's sake, but I still think it's a lot better than my worst fears ever were, and handled well a lot of the things I expected it to bungle. It remains a flawed film and it's not perhaps what I might have done, but for me at least, it did not commit any cardinal sins. I'm also always going to feel a fondness for having three of my wishlist species appear in this one.

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PostSubject: Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later   Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom. Your thoughts one year later - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 01, 2019 9:01 pm

My thoughts are more or less the same... I don't hate or even dislike JWFK that much but that is more due to the fact that JW was such a huge let down in so many ways for me that my expectations for JWFK were very very low.

It is a similar feeling to how I feel about Disney's Star Wars ,The Last Jedi just altered things so much that at this point it is not even hate anymore but more of a now you know how it is being run by people who are not really hardcore fans so you just know it will be not even close to what hardcore fans want.

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