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Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Forum_10Topic: Exploring Jurassic Park's weirdest script draft
Mr. Robustus

Replies: 4
Views: 658

Search in: Film Universe   Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe EmptySubject: Exploring Jurassic Park's weirdest script draft    Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Icon_minitimeMon Aug 27, 2018 1:36 pm
So, I've recently been reading some of the Jurassic Park's scripts, and one in particular caught my attention. It's the march 1992 draft, written by Malia Scotch Marmo (apparently there was also involvement by Crichton himself), that was after the first Michael Crichton draft and before the final David Koepp drafts. There's a lot of concept art for this draft floating around the internet. It's... kind of schlocky, to be honest. There's some really silly dialogue and it reads too much like a B-movie. But I found kind of fascinating to think that this could be the Jurassic Park movie that we got, and started writing down some of the things I found interesting. You can find it here, if you're interested.

Let me get the most interesting stuff out of the way first:

- The first time a dinosaur appears on the flesh is only fairly late into the script, on the jeep tour ride itself. No "Welcome to Jurassic Park" scene here. We are actually TOLD that the Park houses living dinosaurs and how they were made waaaay before we actually see one. There isn't even a hatchling waiting for them in the hatchery or anything.
- On a similar note, Hammond himself only appears in the Visitor Center during the tour ride. Gennaro is the one that picks Alan and Ellie on the dig site.
- Remember that exciting sequence from the novel where the T. rex chases Grant and the kids on their raft through the river? Spielberg has been quoted saying that early during pre-production that it was one of the first sequences he scrapped, because it would be too complicated to recreate. Well, that sequence is present on this draft, but there's a catch: there's no T. rex. Or any other dinosaur, for that matter. Instead, it's just a whole sequence of Grant and the kids looking for a raft on the maintenance shed, finding it, and descending the river while fighting... rapids.
- Nedry isn't stealing dinosaur embryos in this version... he's stealing dinosaur EGGS (he uses a portable incubator instead of a barbasol can). And what's more, he actually makes it to the boat and delivers them! The boat's captain is in on the whole theft, and is actually waiting personally for Nedry to arrive. And the visitors witness the whole smuggling business from afar. Remember that ticking clock subplot from the novel where the visitors need to get the phones working so they can stop the boat before it reaches the mainland? This is basically an adaptation from that, with the difference being that they are trying to stop a smuggling operation instead of stopping two juvenile Velociraptors from reaching the mainland.
- As they're leaving in the rescue chopper, Hammond outright refuses to go with them, ignoring Grant's protests. Instead, he stubbornly walks back into the jungle, and his parting words to Grant is that he'll "amount to nothing", and he'll "be a bone-brusher for the rest of his life".
- After that, the group has a final face-off with the T. rex as it tries to attack the helicopter. Until then, the T. rex was totally absent from the third act. The last time we saw it was after it took down a juvenile hadrosaur.
- Finally, the most interesting aspect: remember that sick Triceratops? They never do find out what's wrong with it in the movie we got, but we know from the comic adaptation, the novel and the final script that the reason it got sick was that, whenever it swallowed gizzard stones, it swallowed some poison berries accidentally. In this draft, the protagonists also come to this conclusion... at first, that is. Later that night, after the T. rex has broke out, Ellie goes to one of the laboratories to analyse a tissue sample from the Triceratops ("Freda", as she is called here) under the microscope, and we learn that the mysterious disease is also affecting the other animals. Grant even notices the same tiny bumps on the tongue of a hadrosaur when he's making his way back to the Visitor Center with the two kids. The answer to the mystery? Ellie finds out from looking at X-Rays of the Triceratops bones that all the dinosaurs from Jurassic Park aren't adults, but instead juveniles pumped with growth hormones. The reason for this (explained by Hammond himself) is that there's a problem with the cloning process that causes the cloned dinosaurs to die very young, and the Park is on a deadline, so "Wu uses growth hormones to achieve the desired size in a short amount of time". Hammond also reveals to Ellie that the main reason he invited her and Alan over is so that, once the tour survey was over, they could help him figure out how to solve that. Naturally, they don't. Everyone just leaves and the implication is that the dinosaurs will all die out.

Characters omissions:

- Probably the biggest character omission here: there's no Ian Malcolm on this draft. Instead, his roles are given to both Grant and Gennaro. Grant is the one constantly at odds and getting into moral discussions with Hammond, and they don't see eye-to-eye. On the other hand, Gennaro is the one accompanying Grant and Sattler on the tour vehicles, and he's the one that gets injured by the T. rex and that later spends the rest of the time high on morphine. This change actually kind of works, but the script ends up missing on a good comic relief (we're basically stuck with Nedry and Lex)
- Oddly enough, there is no Dodgson here (see what I did there it's like a pun). Instead, he's replaced by a character named Bill Baker... that serves pretty much the same purpose, to a point where I was asking myself why did they even change the name. Also, he meets with Nedry on his company's headquarters instead of San Jose.

Jurassic World and Fallen Kingdom déjà vu's:

- Lex rides a baby Triceratops. This was later referenced in the lawsuit-waiting-to-happen Gentle Giants scene from Jurassic World.
- This draft constantly mentions a Dilophosaurus umbrella being sold on the gift shop. While it doesn't happen on this draft, there's a concept art showing Tim and Lex using that umbrella to fend off a Raptor (here). That might have influenced the scene in Jurassic World where Gray activates a Dilo hologram to distract Delta.
- After Ellie tries to reboot energy in the generator, she runs back to the fence surrounding Hammond's quarters with a Raptor hot in pursuit. Muldoon leaves the gate half-shut for Ellie, and she rolls through it. Muldoon shuts the gate just in time before the Raptor can get inside, and the Raptor gets stuck in the bars of the gate. The scene where Owen holds off Blue, Charlie and Delta and rolls through the closing gate before they can pounce on him is reminiscent of this.
- At one point, Ellie enter Hammond's quarters, and there's a large model of the park with plastic dinosaurs. She even briefly picks up the plastic T. rex like Maisie did in an unused scene.
- The T. rex reveal is mostly done by the storm's lightning. Four movies later, Bayona would use the same visual artifice for the T. rex reveal in Fallen Kingdom's prologue.
- There's also the raptor-type dinosaur being killed in the climax by the head of a dinosaur skeleton in a display.

Direct similarities with the novel that didn't carry over to the final script:

- Gennaro is young and athletic. Also, he plays a major role, like in the novel.
- Grant likes kids.
- Tim is older than Lex, and Lex likes baseball and is an insufferable brat.
- Nedry accompanies Grant, Sattler and Gennaro on the helicopter to the island.
- Grant and the kids are woken in the tree by a hadrosaur instead of a Brachiosaurus.
- The stampede scene involves a group of hadrosaurs, not Gallimimus (although the latter are still present here).
- Muldoon actually discovers Nedry's dead body.
- Lex makes friends with a baby Trike.
- Hammond is an asshole, and he dies (or at least it's implied) in the end.
- Both Harding and Wu stay on the island, and Wu is killed by one of the raptors.
- Muldoon survives. Yay!
- Ed Regis is here, accompanying Tim and Lex. Like in the novel, he abandons them during the T. rex breakout, and is later killed by the T. rex (only it's the adult instead of the juvenile).
- The Dilophosaurus is as big as the actual animal, like in the novel. As a bonus, they are already described as having the Chlamydosaurus-esque frill.
- Hammond mentions to Gennaro that they are gonna make a miniature pet Triceratops, like Dodgson hypothesized during the BioSyn boardroom meeting in the novel.
- Grant has his showdown with the Raptors on the hatchery here. The difference is that there's only one Raptor, instead of three. Booo.
- Lex makes friends with a juvenile Triceratops, and actually rides it, like she wanted to do in the novel.

Assorted musings:

- The opening scene is - like the first trailer - a microscopic view of a mosquito in amber being drilled for dinosaur DNA. After that, we cut to the dig site. There's no scene of a Velociraptor being unloaded into its pen.
- There's a whole scene in Gennaro's law office where he and his boss discuss his upcoming inspection of the park. It's... kind of redundant.
- Nedry is incredibly obnoxious in this. Like, much more than in the actual movie, almost like a Jar Jar Binks.
- The tour goes like this: Brachiosaurus > Gallimimus > Dilophosaurus > Triceratops > T. rex
- The "T. rex can only see movement" rule is kind of all over the place here. It's never brought up, other than Grant telling Gennaro and Tim "don't move" when the T. rex breaks out, and then when they see the T. rex attacking Ed Regis, Grant says this: "It's Regis and the Rex is after him.  But it's okay.  Regis knows the Rex can't see him.  Evidently, he can only see movement.  Regis'll be ok if he stays still".
- Ed Regis tries to appeal to the T. rex's good side. It was already silly in the novel, where he did that to a juvenile, but here he tries to do that to an adult T. rex. Also, Grant just kind of watches from a distance with the kids as Regis is comically killed off. He doesn't even try to intervene, or to shield the kids eyes.
- Apparently there are flamingos in the herbivore enclosure. John Hammond really was keen on destroying that leased island's ecosystem in every way possible.
- As aforementioned, there's a scene where Lex finds a baby Triceratops and rides it for a while like a horse. Maybe it's the cynical adult in me, but I'm glad this scene didn't make it into the final movie. The way it's described makes it sound way too whimsical and kid-friendly for my taste. On a different note, it got me wondering how the hell they expected to pull a scene like that off back in 1992.
- There's a recurring motif of mosquitoes buzzing around the characters at certain moments. After the visitors leave to resume their tour, a mosquito buzzes around the sick Triceratops before being smashed by its tail. A mosquito buzzes around Grant as he sleeps on the tree with the kids before being swatted away. Finally, on the second-to-last scene, a mosquito lands on the hand of a dying John Hammond. Poetic justice, I guess.
- Hammond has a sort of 'throne' in the Control Room from where he watches the tour ride. It sounds pretty stupid.
- Instead of an Alamosaurus, the display in the rotunda shows a Velociraptor skeleton fighting a T. rex. Strangely, this draft alludes this encounter numerous times without ever actually showing it in the flesh. There's the display in the rotunda, the climax in which Grant uses the T. rex bones to kill the final raptor, and during the early dig site scene, Ellie mentions that type of encounter (even though neither Velociraptor nor Deinonychus coexisted with T. rex). It's a wonder that it took so long for Spielberg to have the insight to include that fight in the actual movie.
- I'm not sure if Alan and Ellie are supposed to be an item in this. For the most part, it just seems like their relationship is purely platonic, but there's a part where they gaze into each other eyes for a while during the Brachiosaurus scene, and in the end, Grant puts his arm around her when they are escaping in the helicopter, and she pulls it closer.
- For some reason, there's a short scene of Muldoon and Ellie manually moving a fallen tree out of the road. That's it.
- Muldoon essentially leaves Wu for dead. Wu is running towards Hammond's quarters while being chased by a Raptor, and Muldoon closes the door on Wu's face so the Raptor won't get in. He and Ellie only hear Wu's screams from the other side. Jesus, that's really mean-spirited.
- At one point, Lex and Tim are cornered by a Raptor inside the Visitor Center's gift shop. There's a whole sequence where they defend themselves by throwing lots and lots of toys on it, and then make a run to the kitchen. It sounds really silly, almost home alone-esque.
- Muldoon is described as having a constant limp.
- Instead of a max-security fence, the raptors are enclosed in a pit whose opening is covered with wire mesh.
- There are five Raptors. There's no mention of a leader. Here's the death tally:
  Raptor #1: exploded by Muldoon's rocket launcher.
  Raptor #2: locked into freezer by Tim and Lex.
  Raptor #3: killed after eating poisoned egg.
  Raptor #4: gets electrocuted by the electrified bars of Hammond's quarters when Tim gets the power back on the Control Room.
  Raptor #5: squashed by the fallen head of the skeleton T. rex in the rotunda.
- As the main characters are getting aboard the rescue chopper, Hammond mentions they got a batch of Iguanodon eggs due to hatch on Tuesday when trying to convince them to stay. Too bad the park is already chapter 11.
- The final shot of the movie is the survivor's helicopter descending on the cargo ship that was trying to smuggle the dinosaur eggs. I'm not sure what that's supposed to imply, especially considering Grant already convinced it to turn around back to Nublar when he was with the kids on the Control Room.

Some descriptions I found funny:

- "It's A RAPTOR, lean and ferocious.  More like a cyborg than a hunter, it studies the kids from just outside the gift shop entrance. " what
- "The raptor stops gnawing, its ears perked up" what
- "The raptor licks its lips, lizard-like" what
- "The raptor is almost on the kids. Grant coughs conspicuously. The raptor whirls, studies Grant. He looks back at the children" I lost it reading this. Jesus, Grant, are you even trying?
- "The Rex paws after it, then drops down to four legs and gives the copter a final swipe with its tail". Did the writer forget the size of the T. rex's arms?

Some cheesy lines:

- "Extinct animals should stay extinct!" Gennaro, after panicking and running from the jeep. Maybe you should've waited until you're out of the T.rex earshot before screaming that.
- "You don't want to hurt Mr. Regis.  Go away.  Ed's your friend.  Back off!" Ed Regis, to a fully-grown T. rex.
- "Yo ho, I'll close this place down ..." Gennaro singing a shanty while high on morphine.
- "Oh good, 'cause I love the park!  It's more than we ever dreamed!  Those brachiosaurs are so big!  And those Spitters - (he spits) - incredible!  I only have one problem. Aren't we going to have pterodactyls? - (he frowns, smacks his forehead) - Oh, they'd fly away! (Gennaro looks off, watching the imaginary pterodactyls fly away.)" Gennaro to Hammond, while doped.
- "There's a raptor on the roof of this building.  Open that gate and you're a dead man" Ellie's succinct warning to Alan.
- "I just remembered something.  Raptors are born in large litters. There's probably more coming" Clutches, Tim. Clutches.
- "Hey you cretaceous dromaeosaur, you can't catch me.  Hey, come and get me, you flat-snouted Mongolian beast.  Hey!" Ellie's idea of an insult to a Velociraptor. And the Raptor actually gets distracted by that.
- "And then there were none" Grant's one-liner after the last Raptor is killed. Slow clap.
Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Forum_10Topic: why make the Rex from the first movie the only surviving T-Rex?
#TRexSpinorematch

Replies: 25
Views: 699

Search in: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom Talk   Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe EmptySubject: why make the Rex from the first movie the only surviving T-Rex?    Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Icon_minitimeSun Jul 22, 2018 2:02 am
@1morey wrote:
#TRexSpinorematch wrote:
@Mr. Robustus wrote:
The T. rex is the series mascot, so having only one in the new movies makes it more special and recognizable. It also kind of makes it more of a character in its own right: the old, lone, unchallenged ruler of the island (instead of random T. rex #4 of 9).

If there were an indeterminate number of T. rex in these new movies, every time the audience saw a T. rex, they would be like "oh, it's a T. rex", instead of "oh, it's THE T. rex".


But from what I have seen, the general public and casual moviegoers don't have a clue they are watching the same T Rex from the original. They don't care for that either. They just want to see T Rex action.


I have not really gotten that, since a lot of comments on any Jurassic Park-related material identifies her as Rexy.

So, if anything the general public recognizes her as being the same from the original film.

As for SUPER casual audiences, then yeah, they probably wouldn't get the connection.

It's the same as the whole Isla Sorna/Isla Nublar thing. A lot of people felt that most people wouldn't have realized they are two separate islands, and that they made it convoluted. The distinction that they were separate islands was made in BOTH The Lost World and JP III.

"Okay, so there's another island with dinosaurs on it -no fences this time- and you want to send people in, very few people, on the ground, right?"

"You mean there are two islands with dinosaurs on them?"

Like, unless you're a person who watches a movie just to pass time, this is not a confusing matter.

I think this is also partly why shared universes and canonicity are becoming more prevalent in films nowadays (mainly in action, adventure, sci-fi, and horror genres), because people want to see film series that maintain some sense of flow and logic from one installment to the next.

The downside, is when you have multiple timelines, (see: Halloween, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Godzilla)

Granted continuity errors will still exist, because changes can and will be made to fit the needs of the story.


The difference is just that, TLW and JP3 mention many times that there were 2 islands. That's why most in the general public / casual fans do remember that there were 2 islands.

But JW never mentioned Rexy as THE T Rex from the first park. Neither did JW:FK right? (I have only seen it once).

So it is a fact mostly known to hardcore fans. Most in the general audience/ very casual fans are not aware if this.
Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Forum_10Topic: why make the Rex from the first movie the only surviving T-Rex?
Mr. Robustus

Replies: 25
Views: 699

Search in: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom Talk   Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe EmptySubject: why make the Rex from the first movie the only surviving T-Rex?    Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Icon_minitimeSun Jul 22, 2018 1:36 am
#TRexSpinorematch wrote:
@Mr. Robustus wrote:
The T. rex is the series mascot, so having only one in the new movies makes it more special and recognizable. It also kind of makes it more of a character in its own right: the old, lone, unchallenged ruler of the island (instead of random T. rex #4 of 9).

If there were an indeterminate number of T. rex in these new movies, every time the audience saw a T. rex, they would be like "oh, it's a T. rex", instead of "oh, it's THE T. rex".


But from what I have seen, the general public and casual moviegoers don't have a clue they are watching the same T Rex from the original. They don't care for that either. They just want to see T Rex action.


Even if they don't make the connection with the first movie, most people can still recognize that there's only one - brown and scarred - T. rex in the JW movies. So whenever the T. rex appears, even the general audience can see that it's always the same individual, instead of a random one in an island with many.
Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Forum_10Topic: why make the Rex from the first movie the only surviving T-Rex?
1morey

Replies: 25
Views: 699

Search in: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom Talk   Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe EmptySubject: why make the Rex from the first movie the only surviving T-Rex?    Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Icon_minitimeSun Jul 22, 2018 12:28 am
#TRexSpinorematch wrote:
@Mr. Robustus wrote:
The T. rex is the series mascot, so having only one in the new movies makes it more special and recognizable. It also kind of makes it more of a character in its own right: the old, lone, unchallenged ruler of the island (instead of random T. rex #4 of 9).

If there were an indeterminate number of T. rex in these new movies, every time the audience saw a T. rex, they would be like "oh, it's a T. rex", instead of "oh, it's THE T. rex".


But from what I have seen, the general public and casual moviegoers don't have a clue they are watching the same T Rex from the original. They don't care for that either. They just want to see T Rex action.


I have not really gotten that, since a lot of comments on any Jurassic Park-related material identifies her as Rexy.

So, if anything the general public recognizes her as being the same from the original film.

As for SUPER casual audiences, then yeah, they probably wouldn't get the connection.

It's the same as the whole Isla Sorna/Isla Nublar thing. A lot of people felt that most people wouldn't have realized they are two separate islands, and that they made it convoluted. The distinction that they were separate islands was made in BOTH The Lost World and JP III.

"Okay, so there's another island with dinosaurs on it -no fences this time- and you want to send people in, very few people, on the ground, right?"

"You mean there are two islands with dinosaurs on them?"

Like, unless you're a person who watches a movie just to pass time, this is not a confusing matter.

I think this is also partly why shared universes and canonicity are becoming more prevalent in films nowadays (mainly in action, adventure, sci-fi, and horror genres), because people want to see film series that maintain some sense of flow and logic from one installment to the next.

The downside, is when you have multiple timelines, (see: Halloween, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Godzilla)

Granted continuity errors will still exist, because changes can and will be made to fit the needs of the story.
Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Forum_10Topic: why make the Rex from the first movie the only surviving T-Rex?
#TRexSpinorematch

Replies: 25
Views: 699

Search in: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom Talk   Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe EmptySubject: why make the Rex from the first movie the only surviving T-Rex?    Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Icon_minitimeSat Jul 21, 2018 11:32 pm
@Mr. Robustus wrote:
The T. rex is the series mascot, so having only one in the new movies makes it more special and recognizable. It also kind of makes it more of a character in its own right: the old, lone, unchallenged ruler of the island (instead of random T. rex #4 of 9).

If there were an indeterminate number of T. rex in these new movies, every time the audience saw a T. rex, they would be like "oh, it's a T. rex", instead of "oh, it's THE T. rex".


But from what I have seen, the general public and casual moviegoers don't have a clue they are watching the same T Rex from the original. They don't care for that either. They just want to see T Rex action.
Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Forum_10Topic: why make the Rex from the first movie the only surviving T-Rex?
Mr. Robustus

Replies: 25
Views: 699

Search in: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom Talk   Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe EmptySubject: why make the Rex from the first movie the only surviving T-Rex?    Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Icon_minitimeThu Jul 19, 2018 12:48 am
The T. rex is the series mascot, so having only one in the new movies makes it more special and recognizable. It also kind of makes it more of a character in its own right: the old, lone, unchallenged ruler of the island (instead of random T. rex #4 of 9).

If there were an indeterminate number of T. rex in these new movies, every time the audience saw a T. rex, they would be like "oh, it's a T. rex", instead of "oh, it's THE T. rex".
Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Forum_10Topic: General Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom News Thread V.5
DinoMike

Replies: 990
Views: 17745

Search in: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom Talk   Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe EmptySubject: General Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom News Thread V.5    Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Icon_minitimeWed Mar 28, 2018 2:41 pm
@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
Why Jurassic Park should not have been a franchise, according to Collider's Adam Chitwood


You could extend this logic to argue that nothing should be a franchise, though. I can't think of a single movie franchise except possibly Marvel (and that's debateable) that wasn't terrible by the time it was three or four movies in. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Aliens, Tremors, Ghostbusters, Predator, the list goes on and on. In almost every case an excellent starting movie spawns sequels that provide progressively diminishing returns and serve mostly to cheapen the original. I don't think it's a problem unique to Jurassic Park; it's an issue inherent in the movie studio system and the artistic difficulties in having anything meaningful to say when you get hired to write movie #4 in the series.
Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Forum_10Topic: What would it take from JP5...
Guest

Replies: 25
Views: 1267

Search in: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom Talk   Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe EmptySubject: What would it take from JP5...    Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Icon_minitimeWed Mar 15, 2017 4:49 pm
Well, from my perspective, it is impossible to overtake JP in the {#}1{/#} spot, and that goes for any flick in the world. There is absolutely no question about that. It is in the league of it's own.

So right at the start the highest possible position for JP5 to achieve is {#}2{/#}. Now, given that I don't really love TLW, in fact not even think of it as great film but merely as "alright", you'd think such feat to not that difficult of a task at all. And in a way, it isn't. What you just need is a good solid sit through that I enjoy and that I can see enjoying years later. However, TLW even with it's faults, at least has all the excuses of being the very first sequel. JP5 does not have the same liberties. So even if the new film would have flawless execution in every other area of film making, be it in cinematography and characters and action and effects and whatever else, if the old "island dinosaur escape" and other very much rehashed theme lines from the 90's are there again in any meaningful form, it will rank immediately below the {#}2{/#} spot. I do not appreciate seeing the same thing over and over again - something needs to happen finally to break off the generic formula chains. That is the benchmark of reaching number {#}2{/#}. On top of that almost all of the aspects that made me hate JW would have to be removed and turned into workable solutions, including technical aspects which means making it look like a film and not video game. And from everything I've seen of the production and rumored premise so far, it strongly suggests that there needs to be a miracle to reach this level. I suppose it's still possible, it's not really asking *that much*, but I'm not believing in it.

Now, spot {#}3{/#} is the hot seat. This is the realistic best chance as far as I'm concerned, and I said the same for JW when the new park premise was leaked for the first time. To beat JP3, but still rank below TLW, I merely need a competent film. There can be semi-serious flaws in places, but not so much that one can make giant list of them. What you need first off is decent coherent plot and themes that actually move the series ahead as whole and have some sort of meaning, even if it's minor. On top of that, likeable characters, proper animatronics, no in-your-face fanservice, and canon/continuum of TLW/JP3 should not be totally ignored again. The Nublar return would have to be only a very minor part.

For {#}4{/#}, the requirements really aren't that high. Just something generic that resembles somewhat/barely passable product there or thereabouts. I don't know what else to add there.

Finally to be in the last position {#}5{/#} would require it to be total and utter garbage. It's yet unclear to me how this could be managed to be achieved.
Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Forum_10Topic: JD-man's Serious Dino Books/Dino-Related Reviews!
JD-man

Replies: 40
Views: 2518

Search in: Dinosaur Jungles   Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe EmptySubject: JD-man's Serious Dino Books/Dino-Related Reviews!    Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 12:40 pm
My 30th review for this thread is a negative 1 for Long's Dinosaurs (Insiders). If you haven't already, I'd greatly appreciate you reading & voting "Yes" for said review in the bolded link below. Besides wanting to make sure said review gives a good idea of what to expect, it needs all the "Yes" votes it can get because it's outnumbered by opposing reviews (which don't give a good idea of what to expect). Many thanks in advance.

The worst alternative ( https://www.amazon.com/review/R1Y51RJP1YORCC/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1416938575&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=283155&store=books ): 1/5

For as long as there has been Dinosaur (DK Eyewitness Books) (henceforth DD), there have been wannabes. As much as I love DD, I understand why readers would want an alternative: For 1, see the Ben quote; What Ben says about "the AMNH fossil halls" goes for DD; For another, DD is a mixed bag in terms of paleoart.* However, as far as I know, Abramson et al.'s Inside Dinosaurs is the only good alternative. Long's Dinosaurs (Insiders) (henceforth DI) is the worst of all the other alternatives. In this review, I list the 2 main reasons why I think that is, besides the text.**

1) Unlike DD, DI is an annoying & confusing mess in terms of writing & organization. In reference to "annoying...writing", this is especially apparent in the sub-chapter about the dino extinction because 1) the main text explains nothing about the science behind the dino extinction story, & 2) the sidebar text needlessly re-tells said story. In reference to "confusing...organization", this is especially apparent in the sub-chapters about studying & finding/reconstructing dino fossils because 1) you have to find dino fossils BEFORE you can study/reconstruct them, & 2) the text explaining said processes is scattered all over with no apparent rhyme or reason.

2) Unlike DD's life reconstructions, DI's are mostly not-so-good. Those by Carr are as good as it gets in DI, while those by Pixel-shack are as bad as it gets: In reference to Carr, that's not saying much; Some of her life reconstructions are OK (E.g. See the small T.rex on the front cover), while others are just plain outdated/abominable (E.g. See the feathered dinos on the back cover; Some have pronated hands or splayed legs; Others look like demented muppets or feathered lizards); In reference to Pixel-shack, I've already said everything I have to say about them in my Dinosaurs review (See reason #4: https://www.amazon.com/review/R3J1R5BYAZABGZ/ref=cm_cr_srp_d_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1847244173 ); In DI, the ankylosaurs are depicted as being piles of poop, while the tyrannosaurs are shameless rip-offs of the Jurassic Park T.rex. Those by the other illustrators fall somewhere in between, but more towards Pixel-shack (E.g. See Eriksson's large T.rex on the front cover, which is a poorly-photoshopped lace monitor). McKinnon's paleoart may be the 2nd worst in DI (E.g. Not only is the Struthiomimus un-feathered with pronated hands, but also duck-billed with cheeks).

*I'm specifically referring to DD's life reconstructions, many of which are not-so-good (E.g. Those by various illustrators & Pixel-shack in the older & newer editions, respectively).

**Even if you only read the "Fast facts" & the "Time bar", you'll see that there's an average of at least 3 or 4 factual errors per page in DI, a 64 page book.

Quoting Ben ( https://extinctmonsters.net/2015/02/26/framing-fossil-exhibits-phylogeny/ ):
Quote :
Within the actual fossil halls, interpretation remains stubbornly unapproachable. For example, the sign introducing proboscidians tells visitors that this group is defined primarily by eye sockets located near the snout. An observant visitor might wonder why scientists rely on such an obscure detail, as opposed to the obvious trunks and tusks. There’s a good teaching moment there concerning why some characteristics might face more selection pressure (and thus change more radically) than others, but instead visitors are only offered esoteric statements. Relatedly, the exhibit does little to prioritize information. Most label text is quite small, and there’s a lot of it. Compare this to Evolving Planet at the Field Museum, where there is a clear hierarchy of headings and sub-headings. Visitors can read the main point of a display without even stopping, and parents can quickly find relevant information to answer their charges’ questions (rather than making something up).
Evolving Planet also compares favorably to the AMNH fossil halls in its informative aesthetics and spatial logic. At FMNH, walls and signs in each section are distinctly color-coded, making transitions obvious and intuitive. Likewise, consistent iconography...such as the mass extinction zones...helps visitors match recurring themes and topics throughout the exhibit. AMNH, in contrast, has a uniform glass and white-walled Apple Store aesthetic. It’s visually appealing, but doesn’t do much to help visitors navigate the space in a meaningful way.
Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Forum_10Topic: Trex-Multiples Just Want to Get Along
LostWorld

Replies: 7
Views: 1604

Search in: JP: Operation Genesis   Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe EmptySubject: Trex-Multiples Just Want to Get Along    Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Icon_minitimeSun Aug 14, 2016 12:43 pm
Welcome to the T.rex-multiples as a tolerant, cohesive pair thread - Revised


With the FCM: HD looming on the horizon, I thought that this would be a nice supplemental addition for any pack that uses skin multiples. Here is a step in the right direction for a potentially conclusive solution to T.rex-multiples coexisting with one another - as a pack. Perhaps with this information, someone experienced with fsm modding or other could take it to the next level. This edit eliminates territorial disputes amongst your select T.rex-multiples entirely without changing Tclass. It was also done in an attempt to establish a "pecking order" on Site B by emulating what was seen from the original Film trilogy.

I started this thing over by reinstalling the game and mods anew for verification purposes. Here are the mods/settings that were used:


JPItalia's Movie Universe (w/ FCM 2.0 Allo skin)
PMEP sans Raptor.fsm files - only using GEP2 Raptor-specific fsm's for the time being.
DJE - skies and grass files, nothing that affects this edit from a mechanics standpoint


IMPORTANT!!! This has been thoroughly tested and is compatible with PMEP only! All results have been based on edits that were made within individual [Units] files and the [Units/WIN] folder that comes with PMEP. During this time, I'd also tried making this compatible with GEP2 but it was too problematic. So, PMEP all the way as far as this edit goes. I haven't tested with the vanilla game files to make a determination on that.

What I did to achieve this was install PMEP-->Movie Universe in that order. I then copy/pasted all PMEP individual dino.ini settings over each multiples' .ini file that were added with Movie Universe to keep uniform and maintain stability. This of course would be the same instruction for any skin-multiples pack that doesn't affect PMEP settings. I also swapped out some .INX files because I used some different dino sound files.    


***Remember, always backup original game files***


Now to the workaround:

Before you get started (assuming all DNA, Site B,etc. is unlocked), go into [Data/Units] and find the Trex.ini files of your chosen flock.


See that FlockSize=2 (or more).
I'm certain that FlockCoh needs to be enabled to show the crown, so set it to 1.0 or more. I think the higher this is set, the more the follower will move like the leader.
I have FlockSep=30. They can wander around without being "stuck" to eachother.
FlockRad=500 at this time.
 

Perception Input values are also key:

PInput_Organic=0.5
PInput_Maxspeed=0.6 (change from PMEP's 0.5)
PInput_Size=0.7
PInput_Offensive should not be above 1.0

To make this fully compatible, you'll also need to edit some values in all large carns' .ini's PerceptionInputs. Keep in mind, PMEP has made upgrades to all large carns by swapping .Nwt's. Allo uses Carcha.Nwt values. Acro and Carcha use Trex.Nwt values. And Trex uses Spino.Nwt values.

Acro

PInput_Organic=0.5
Pinput_Maxspeed=0.5
PInput_Size=0.66

Allo

PInput_Organic=0.5
PInput_Maxspeed=0.5
PInput_Size=0.66

Carcha

PInput_Organic=0.5
PInput_Maxspeed=0.5
PInput_Size=0.67

Spino

PInput_Organic=0.5
PInput_Maxspeed=0.5
PInput_Size=0.69


Also, you can adjust POutputs to your liking if you choose. I'm nearly certain that raising Large_Carnivore_Threat will raise tendency to flee, while adjusting Large_Carnivore_Competitor adjusts tendency to challenge. Results could vary depending on duels won/experience. I can confirm that duels won are a factor.

Save the .ini's. Now, make sure that the select rexes are using Spino.Nwt. Next, load up the game-->setup a paddock with carn feeder(I think the first kill sets in packing?)-->release any two rex multiples (I'm using Movie Universe trex2 & trex3) and allow them to pack together once a crown has appeared. There may be a... skirmish, hehe. Save game and exit out. Go back into [Data/Units] and open up the corresponding Trex.Nwt files (that should be Spino.Nwt values) and scroll down to the line W152=5.451560 and change to 2.451560 (or alternatively 3.270382 as this is the maximum value before territorial disputes are triggered - yeah, I was that determined to know exactly where the dividing line was). Once that's been saved, startup the game and load your save.

And there, you should have the results. The crown will still be locked in. Your "male" and "female" should make a nice attraction for your park, or you can let them loose on Site B. They will feed together,etc. without ever fighting one another!

Remember, for best results the rexes should be packed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some extra tidbits
           
The Good:

I thought that changing the species name would change how the species perceive one another. After testing, changing the screen name will still allow ability to pack.

Death Duels are retained

Territorial activity icon is not disabled

The "follower" rex will satisfy all of its own needs

When packed together territorial behavior appears to be intensified and they will even duel with Spino together *I've seen a couple of funny glitches with this


The Bad:

If a rex happens to go down during gameplay and you want to keep a pair/pack, you'll have to go back out of the game and edit the .Nwt line W152 to original and do the process of hatching and "crowning" over.  
 

The ???:

Vehicle attacks have had mixed results. I've seen relentless pursuit by both and even indifference towards the safari jeep. Sometimes one will pursue, and the other will be indifferent. I haven't figured out exactly why. Vehicle pursuits always happen when they first come out of the hatchery. **Edit** Out of the hatchery jeep pursuits were normal, but then I lured the rexes to another large carn by driving the jeep. After they encountered/dueled another large carn, they were indifferent to the jeep.
 
Hatching T.rex-multiples AFTER editing the line in NWT will disable packing, and they will only show [Territory] icon when encountering another large carn. They will wander around more aimlessly and most likely away from eachother if loose on Sight B. (A solution for this issue has been added and can be found in Post #4 below).
   
I tried getting this working with the default Trex.NWT afterwards but was unable to match the same result - W167 changed to 1.559825 or lower (in default Trex.NWT) will deactivate initiating battles but the rexes still panicked. To remove panic, I edited lines W64-->W69 to match the corresponding Spino.NWT. This was fine until they got [Hunger] and would then run after eachother.



More observation:

The rexes will go about wherever on the island (together or separately), but will eventually always meet up and return to the area they were hatched from. That is cool.

In Operation Genesis mode - when Rampaging! -  they will attack anything that moves, including other large carns. The rexes will :::never::: attack eachother (packed or not), even working together against a single target.

The "follower" rex will sometimes have bouts of aimless running around only while in [Hunger] or [Stress] while the "leader" is in [Idle]. When the "leader" is satisfying its needs, then the follower will satisfy its hunger. This appears to be normal for any non-leader.


These are just my findings in my experience with the game on/off the past few years. I remember using T.rex-multiples for the first time and was annoyed that they always ceaslessly battled eachother. After reading through countless threads online related to the issue with no answer, I found myself digging one day in the NWT's (tedious, but worth it). It was time... it was just time.


Anyway, this has been my placeholder until something better comes along - inspired by all of the talented JP:OG modders out there. Apologies for lack of video or screencaps. Try it out for yourselves if you're curious. Enjoy!


Credit goes to PMEP for awesome behavior edits that enabled this modification to happen, and JPItalia's Movie Universe for re-creating some of the best skins that I've seen that very accurately reflect their film counterparts.

I'd thought about just packing everything together for a simple download, but I don't think that it's my place to be distributing others work. Sorry about all of the DIY.

***Backup your original game files***

 
***Update***

So, it appears that the vehicle encounter issue is not exclusive to the T.rex edits as I first thought. I tested and found random changes in behavior/interaction with every large carn (before and after edits). For example, I released a Carcha and it was indifferent to the jeep. I then hatched another, and it chased the jeep... ? Same thing for the rex pair. Maybe something can be edited in the jeep.ini. **Jeep.ini editing yielded no results

As for T.rex/Spino death-duel outcomes, this one has been random. Age, kill count, and other experience factors don't seem to matter here. I wonder what variable determines the winner... ?

I've made attempts at getting the crown to show without having to keep redoing the process of exiting/editing/reloading the game, but have come up empty so far. The only time I've seen it appear is when there's a conflict related to either [Territory] or a [Stress/Panic] combination. There may be a combination that exists.
Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Forum_10Topic: JP3 Spinosaurus vs. Idominus rex
Tarbtano

Replies: 12
Views: 870

Search in: Film Universe   Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe EmptySubject: JP3 Spinosaurus vs. Idominus rex    Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 1:01 am
We got a thread debating how well Rexy goes up against the Indominus, so I figured, since the other Tyrannosaurs from TLW and JP3 would only do very comparable than the Queen of Nublar against the hybrid; why not call in the other super predator on the block? It's the Untameable Terror to Nublar vs. the Pharaoh of Sorna!


Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Dce0d04dad184d4c38340957532102e5


Now let's assume the fight is set up exactly the same way as in JW's climax, only instead of Rexy we get Spiny charging out of Paddock 9 and crashing through a Tyrannosaurus skeleton because we're in an AU that JP3 was considered a classic because of plot convenience playhouse. And then, Spiny confronts and charges the Indominus.

The conditions beforehand are identical, as is passage of time. The Indominus is already injured from the fights with other dinosaurs, Owen, ACU, and the InGen mercs; but still in seemingly good condition. We're also assuming it won't be using its smarts or camouflage ability any more than it did in canon. Spiny is in peak form, but not exactly the same way we saw it fourteen years ago. It would be older than we saw it in JP3, thus a tid bit larger and aged, but not as past its prime as Rexy might have been. We'll say its 48 feet long, 18 feet at the head, and 9 tons. So size wise it's pretty much around the same size as the I.rex and thus a bit larger than Rexy; however not by any significant degree.

There are some changes however that will occur due to changing one combatant from Rexy to Spiny. For one, the Spinosaurus fights a bit differently. It wouldn't be using its jaws quite as heavily as Rexy did for obvious reasons. Now this is both a favorable and unfavorable change for our sail-back. It means Spiny wouldn't be able to land those big chomps that Rexy was able to dish out, as its jaws aren't as powerful. It could still headbutt, grasp, and grapple with its mouth; but not bite as hard. On the plus side, this means the I.rex's biggest advantage against Rexy, her claws, wouldn't be as lopsided as the Spinosaurus has just as strong a set it isn't shy about using. It also means the Indominus wouldn't be able to negate Spiny's attacks quite as well as she did Rexy's via restraining Rexy's neck or jaws. If she did that here, it would leave her open for Spiny to slash at her.

Spiny weighing a bit more is also a bit of a trade-off change. On one hand, it means that colliding with the Indominus means the force be in its favor more so than it was Rexy's. It also means tossing Spiny through the storefront would be a bit more difficult as well as any shoves Spiny gives her would have more momentum behind them. However, it could also mean Spiny would be a bit less agile in the fight.

Now let's have them fight. For the outcome I'll put five outcomes in the poll based on how well the Spinosaurus does.

Outcome #1 - The Spinosaurus beats down the Indominus alone
This is the most optimal outcome for Spiny. Here he/she/it manages to not only go head to head against the hybrid, but overpowers it without need of a second wind. This could end either like the film, with the Spinosaurus lasting long and damaging the Indominus enough to shove her into the Mosasaur pool, or would the Spinosaurus mauling the Indominus to death either via slashing or breaking its neck like it did the JP3 Tyrannosaurus.

Outcome #2 - The Spinosaurus beats the Indominus with help from Blue
Basically the movie outcome. Spiny loses in the first round but gets a reprieve thanks to Blue long enough to catch its second wind and fight again. Like #1, this can either end way it did in the movie with the Mosasaur or Blue and Spiny kill the I.rex personally.

Outcome #3 - The Spinosaurus can at least hold it off; but still loses solo
Bad ending. The Spinosaurus just can't deal or tank the same damage Rexy could and gets killed by the Indominus as it fights it alone, before Blue can show up to help.

Outcome #4 - The Spinosaurus loses even with Blue's help
Worst ending. Even with Blue's help, Spiny just can't go the distance and loses to the Indominus soundly.



And before anyone says so, no I really don't think it matters that the Tyrannosaurus rex the Spinosaurus fought in the third film was a couple of feet smaller than the ones from TLW and JP/JW. That fight was pretty much a curbstomp in Spiny's favor given as nothing the Tyrannosaurus threw at it did much more than stall it. I've restrained from saying this on JPL to avoid sparking a flame-war, but I think it needs be said. Just because the Spinosaurus soundly trounced a "sub-adult" (it really wasn't, subadult would be more like 25-32 feet, not 37), doesn't mean it now auto-loses to a slightly larger adult. It's like saying you could lift a 100lb weight easily, but suddenly a 115lb weight would break your spine. IMNO, it's probably most accurate and easiest just to say the Jurassic Park universe Spinosaurus and Tyrannosaurus are just very comparable at adult age and either one of them could kill the other.
Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Forum_10Topic: Mystery of the 8(?) Male T. rex maquettes!
CT-1138

Replies: 0
Views: 1885

Search in: Film Universe   Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe EmptySubject: Mystery of the 8(?) Male T. rex maquettes!    Topics tagged under 4 on Jurassic Mainframe Icon_minitimeTue Jun 07, 2016 9:35 pm
Quote :
Although the T-rex had been sculpted and molded for the first movie--making the resculpting of the character unnecessary--some additional sculpture work was required to create a male version that would be distinguishable from the female. "Even though the male would have different coloring", explained effects supervisor Shane Mahan, "we were concerned that, under certain lighting conditions it would be very hard to tell the two rexes apart. So, on the computer, I started manipulating photographs of the original T-rex. I did a series of eight different head shapes, all of which were submitted to Steven for approval.

Spielberg approved a male T-rex head that had an added neck wattle, a more prominent brow bone, and a battle scarred face. "There is a lot of science now to support the idea that carnivores like the T-rexes would have been really scarred up," Mahan Said, "with broken arms and legs and teeth knocked out. It makes sense, because they would have been battling each other for food all the time. In this film, the animals were in a more natural, wild , environment, rather than the safe containment of the man-made park, and that wpuld mean scarred bodies. Between the battle scars, the extended brow line, and the neck wattle, the male was a really distinctive animal." ... (Duncan, The Making of The Lost World: Jurassic Park)

....

...Shane Mahan produced eight male head designs by digitally manipulating photographic images of the original T-rex, then translated the approved concept into three dimensions, sculpting scars, neck wattle, and a pronounced brow ridge directly onto a replica of the original head of the original head for molding and the running of the new skins. John Rosengrant designed the paint scheme for the male T-rex on a maquette and then executed the paint job on the full-size character with some help from Trevor Hensley. ... (Duncan, The Winston Effect)

So, there's the story of the origin to our beloved big, mean, green machine that shredded up a Mercedes and stomped all over San Diego. BUT, I think there's a piece missing to this story, a piece that's hinted at between both stories. Both state that Shane Mahan came up with 8 head designs, and The Winston Effect adds a vital clue where it states that the final approved concept was transferred to 3D. I think that it's quite possible that more than just the approved concept made it to the sculpting table, and that it's very well possible that all 8 had been sculpted in maquette form. I've compiled the 3 maquettes that I know of below listed by potential order of conception.


Maquette #1)
-Description: A sort of beigish green color, no neck wattle, no scars, only has the pronounced brow ridge. Maquette was not approved by Spielberg.
-Image(s):
Spoiler:
 


Maquette #2)
-Description: ?
-Image(s): ?


Maquette #3)
-Description: ?
-Image(s): ?


Maquette #4)
-Description: ?
-Image(s): ?


Maquette #5)
-Description: ?
-Image(s): ?


Maquette #6)
-Description: The color scheme is closer to the finalized maquette, yet the wattle is not fully there. The striping pattern is also more broken. The right arm, also may have been broken as indicated by the odd posture.
-Image(s): Partially painted image:
Spoiler:
 


Bronzed #6 Macquette)
-Description: Retooled from the original #6 maquette by Jim Charmatz, the sculpt was changed to an even more dynamic pose from the original, opening the mouth more, and altering the feet a bit. One individual that came from a collector in China had a friend repaint the bronze into more lifelike colors, as seen below in the images section. This particular maquette currently resides in the collection of forum member Jerassic.
-Image(s):
Painted Copy-
Spoiler:
 
Images of the original bronze version-
Spoiler:
 
The bronze maquette currently resides in the collection of Mr. John Lanzendorf, a renowned dinosaur art collector living in Chicago, Illinois-
Spoiler:
 


Maquette #7)
-Description: This one is the closest to the final approved maquette. It features all the details of the final maquette with slight differences. The neck wattle is slightly smaller than that of the final maquette, and the colors are slightly more vibrant. This maquette is most easily differentiated from the final by the arms, the left of which having a different posing. This maquette was not approved by Spielberg.
-Images(s):
Spoiler:
 


Maquette #8)
-Description: This was the finalized maquette, using a distinctive stone base. The neck wattle on this model is the largest, and being that this was the chosen maquette, it's possible to speculate that Spielberg had been interested in seeing a T. rex with a large wattle under it's neck. This maquette was used on set as well as by ILM, who scanned the model into the computer in order to create the CGI representation of the animal. This maquette was approved by Spielberg and is the closest visual we have of the TLW Buck other than the animatronic pre-repaint for JP///. This maquette is in fact the TLW Male T. rex. In props terms, this would be referred to as the "hero" maquette; the primary maquette used for production purposes, including being recasted for JP///. This maquette was further used in promotional and merchandising material for TLW, JP///, and beyond.
-Image(s):
Spoiler:
 


The problem, however, is that this leaves us with possibly five unaccounted for maquettes for the male alone, not counting the female maquette for TLW and the bronze recast(s-?) of maquette 2, 3, 4, or 5. I say possibly, because I discussed this with someone who talked to one of the SWS sculptors who worked on them, and he remembers there only be 2.
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