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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:43 am

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@BoulderFaceplant wrote:
So this basically confirms that the Rex family was killed either by a viral strain or the Spinosaurus. I have no words for the stupidity of this. Not only is that a huge middle finger to the fans and audiences who got invested in TLW’s Rex plot, but it pretty much defeats the purpose of saving Rexy from Nublar. She’s the last of her kind! Why on earth would they try to save her as part of this extinction prevention if her species is already functionally extinct? Utterly disgusted by this version of canon shat out just to contrive the Nublar stock into being the last dinosaurs. “Eruption=extinction” is so unnecessary, and appeals to this modern blockbuster way of thinking where the stakes have to be as simplistic as possible to appeal to the sub-70-IQ crowd.

I agree, not only that, but why didn't Masrani demand a new batch of dinosaur be made to replace that ones that died out? Also, don't the other islands have dinosaurs as well? And what about the fact that the U.S. Military was supposed to be protecting the islands? Even more after what happened in JP3?

I honesty think more then ever that Spielberg and Universal have no idea how much fans love TLW and that they have no intent on actually PROPERLY explaining any of the plot holes that took place i JP3 or in between JP3 and JW via an animated cartooon show. At this point, TLW seems to be the last JP movie that had any common sense. I was willing to lower my expectations for JW but I had them raised much higher for this new movie. From what I have seen, it only seems to get dumber. Finding out how it will begin alone made my stomach churn.

New Dinos = more money. Seriously, I actually can't believe how badly people are moaning about this. Since when were there Dinosaurs on any of the other islands? The U.S. Military WERE (past tense) protecting the island. That could've changed since. Again, it's been a long time since the events of JP3.

What exactly do you want from the story of this franchise? Where would you take it?

Honestly, I feel like the fanbase for this franchise is turning into the Star Wars fanbase. The filmmakers literally can't seem to do anything without getting fingers pointed at them.

I listed many examples in this multiple times. But here's my path.

Instead of the the movie that we are currently getting, have a movie that takes place in between JP3 and JW. Have Wu secretly wipe out half the dinosaurs with the VX virus with the JP3 Spino, ret-conned as a T. rex Spino hybrid, as backup. Have be where Masrani pays a man to investigate the dinosaurs on Sorna and the other islands to see how they are doing. Make Wu an inside man for Biosyn.

This movie, the one we are currently getting would be the final movie, with the ending modified so that Lex and Tim everything back.

All my other ideas are on my second post of my 'this franchise should be larger' thread.

What would be the purpose of making the Spinosaurus a hybrid? I honestly don't see how those ideas expand the story to new territory compared to what seems to be the plan of the Jurassic World trilogy anyway.

The JP3 Spino was portrayed as a super-predator, but in real life, medium sized dinosaurs were the largest prey it could take down. Not only that, but there are many differences between that version-which was based on a lot of guesswork-and the modern version. By ret-conning it as a hybrid, it would connect the 2 trilogies much better.

As for the 'plan of the JW trilogy' can we really call it a plan that was made in case it did well, or can we call it something that was made at the last minute due to Universal having no clue what to do in case it did so well mixed with Spielberg not being a franchise man?

Why does the Spinosaurus of all the Dinosaurs in the franchise need to be retconned due to its inaccuracies? Is it because of the T-Rex fight in JP3? If we're trying to explain away inaccuracies, then we might as well have a clean slate for all the rest of them too. Why can't it be that the Spino in Jurassic Park franchise just happens to be a tough son' bitch? I mean, the Raptors are way taller than they should be anyway.

Regarding the plan, I'd call it a plan and a pretty decent one. Just because the story went one way that you don't particularly like it doesn't mean it's a bad story. In fact, I believe it to be a more logical story progression than staying on the islands for another 3 films or wasting time retconning previous ideas. They seem to know what they're going with, hence the decisions to create a backstory for the new film and bringing on board a new writer for part 3. Could be shit in the end, of course, but it's a plan. I just can't imagine people being satisfied with a franchise that lingers on older ideas and doesn't really branch out into new territory.

Here's the thing. The Spinosaurus in JP3 barely resembles anything like the modern counterpart, in part due to it being based on too much speculation and not enough hard evidence. Most of the JP dinosaurs still have the basic design of their real life counterparts. That and the JP raptors are too ingrained in pop culture for them to be changed en mass. It all boils down to favoritism and how ingrained certain dinosaurs are in pop culture. When your trying to market a product, then favoritism matters.

As for the plan, is it really that hard to explore both the old and enter the new at the same time rather then say "Screw the old sequels"? Superhero movies and Star Wars both do that and I don't see a reason why we can't get a movie or animated cartoon show that takes place in between JP3 and JW.

I'd hardly give the Raptors a pass but not the Spinosaurus. And I'd also say the Spinosaurus from JP3 is very well-known. Eough so that it has enough fans to keep it from being retconned.

Regarding the new and old, they're doing just that. They're branching out and returning to Nublar and POSSIBLY going back to Sorna at some point. There aren't really any other stories to be told on Sorna that wouldn't be slammed for being a rehash. Nothing about this new storyline says 'screw you' to the past sequels. This trilogy is 'Jurassic World' not 'Jurassic Island'. Also, at least Sorna isn't being bombed haha
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:45 pm

If I may add something to the Spino complaint. A lot of people have a problem with it’s behavior and feel that it’s by far the most over the top “villain” Dino of the series. And acts far less like a normal animal than the other predators. So that is one reason some like the idea of it being a rage filled monster on purpose.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:49 pm

@Troyal1 wrote:
If I may add something to the Spino complaint. A lot of people have a problem with it’s behavior and feel that it’s by far the most over the top “villain” Dino of the series. And acts far less like a normal animal than the other predators. So that is one reason some like the idea of it being a rage filled monster on purpose.

But should the newer films be held back by the mistakes in JP3? Honestly, to me, going back to that and now saying it's a Spinosaurus/T-Rex hybrid is kinda forced. It screams B-movie more than the Indominus Rex.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:14 pm

@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@BoulderFaceplant wrote:
So this basically confirms that the Rex family was killed either by a viral strain or the Spinosaurus. I have no words for the stupidity of this. Not only is that a huge middle finger to the fans and audiences who got invested in TLW’s Rex plot, but it pretty much defeats the purpose of saving Rexy from Nublar. She’s the last of her kind! Why on earth would they try to save her as part of this extinction prevention if her species is already functionally extinct? Utterly disgusted by this version of canon shat out just to contrive the Nublar stock into being the last dinosaurs. “Eruption=extinction” is so unnecessary, and appeals to this modern blockbuster way of thinking where the stakes have to be as simplistic as possible to appeal to the sub-70-IQ crowd.

I agree, not only that, but why didn't Masrani demand a new batch of dinosaur be made to replace that ones that died out? Also, don't the other islands have dinosaurs as well? And what about the fact that the U.S. Military was supposed to be protecting the islands? Even more after what happened in JP3?

I honesty think more then ever that Spielberg and Universal have no idea how much fans love TLW and that they have no intent on actually PROPERLY explaining any of the plot holes that took place i JP3 or in between JP3 and JW via an animated cartooon show. At this point, TLW seems to be the last JP movie that had any common sense. I was willing to lower my expectations for JW but I had them raised much higher for this new movie. From what I have seen, it only seems to get dumber. Finding out how it will begin alone made my stomach churn.

New Dinos = more money. Seriously, I actually can't believe how badly people are moaning about this. Since when were there Dinosaurs on any of the other islands? The U.S. Military WERE (past tense) protecting the island. That could've changed since. Again, it's been a long time since the events of JP3.

What exactly do you want from the story of this franchise? Where would you take it?

Honestly, I feel like the fanbase for this franchise is turning into the Star Wars fanbase. The filmmakers literally can't seem to do anything without getting fingers pointed at them.

I listed many examples in this multiple times. But here's my path.

Instead of the the movie that we are currently getting, have a movie that takes place in between JP3 and JW. Have Wu secretly wipe out half the dinosaurs with the VX virus with the JP3 Spino, ret-conned as a T. rex Spino hybrid, as backup. Have be where Masrani pays a man to investigate the dinosaurs on Sorna and the other islands to see how they are doing. Make Wu an inside man for Biosyn.

This movie, the one we are currently getting would be the final movie, with the ending modified so that Lex and Tim everything back.

All my other ideas are on my second post of my 'this franchise should be larger' thread.

What would be the purpose of making the Spinosaurus a hybrid? I honestly don't see how those ideas expand the story to new territory compared to what seems to be the plan of the Jurassic World trilogy anyway.

The JP3 Spino was portrayed as a super-predator, but in real life, medium sized dinosaurs were the largest prey it could take down. Not only that, but there are many differences between that version-which was based on a lot of guesswork-and the modern version. By ret-conning it as a hybrid, it would connect the 2 trilogies much better.

As for the 'plan of the JW trilogy' can we really call it a plan that was made in case it did well, or can we call it something that was made at the last minute due to Universal having no clue what to do in case it did so well mixed with Spielberg not being a franchise man?

Why does the Spinosaurus of all the Dinosaurs in the franchise need to be retconned due to its inaccuracies? Is it because of the T-Rex fight in JP3? If we're trying to explain away inaccuracies, then we might as well have a clean slate for all the rest of them too. Why can't it be that the Spino in Jurassic Park franchise just happens to be a tough son' bitch? I mean, the Raptors are way taller than they should be anyway.

Regarding the plan, I'd call it a plan and a pretty decent one. Just because the story went one way that you don't particularly like it doesn't mean it's a bad story. In fact, I believe it to be a more logical story progression than staying on the islands for another 3 films or wasting time retconning previous ideas. They seem to know what they're going with, hence the decisions to create a backstory for the new film and bringing on board a new writer for part 3. Could be shit in the end, of course, but it's a plan. I just can't imagine people being satisfied with a franchise that lingers on older ideas and doesn't really branch out into new territory.

Here's the thing. The Spinosaurus in JP3 barely resembles anything like the modern counterpart, in part due to it being based on too much speculation and not enough hard evidence. Most of the JP dinosaurs still have the basic design of their real life counterparts. That and the JP raptors are too ingrained in pop culture for them to be changed en mass. It all boils down to favoritism and how ingrained certain dinosaurs are in pop culture. When your trying to market a product, then favoritism matters.

As for the plan, is it really that hard to explore both the old and enter the new at the same time rather then say "Screw the old sequels"? Superhero movies and Star Wars both do that and I don't see a reason why we can't get a movie or animated cartoon show that takes place in between JP3 and JW.

I'd hardly give the Raptors a pass but not the Spinosaurus. And I'd also say the Spinosaurus from JP3 is very well-known. Eough so that it has enough fans to keep it from being retconned.

Regarding the new and old, they're doing just that. They're branching out and returning to Nublar and POSSIBLY going back to Sorna at some point. There aren't really any other stories to be told on Sorna that wouldn't be slammed for being a rehash. Nothing about this new storyline says 'screw you' to the past sequels. This trilogy is 'Jurassic World' not 'Jurassic Island'. Also, at least Sorna isn't being bombed haha

Considering how they wiped out most-if not all-of Sorna's dinosaur population, they might as well have bombed it.

As for the JP3 Spino, just because it's well known, doesn't mean that it's accepted. Not only that, but as Troyal said, it acts more like a monster then a dinosaur. Not only that, but we have no idea why it was made, who exactly made it, and how it died. You say that ret-conning it as a hybrid is forced, but couldn't one say that about how it's being handled via the sites, albeit in a lazier way?

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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:29 pm

@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:
@Troyal1 wrote:
If I may add something to the Spino complaint. A lot of people have a problem with it’s behavior and feel that it’s by far the most over the top “villain” Dino of the series. And acts far less like a normal animal than the other predators. So that is one reason some like the idea of it being a rage filled monster on purpose.

But should the newer films be held back by the mistakes in JP3? Honestly, to me, going back to that and now saying it's a Spinosaurus/T-Rex hybrid is kinda forced. It screams B-movie more than the Indominus Rex.

As someone who loves JP3, I see it as an opportunity to put the two trilogies together. I mean it would be cool if Spino was the beginning of some of Ingen’s top secret projects.

It’s kind of why I want a movie dealing with Sorna. I really like that island and I felt JP never did enough with it. I think of it as wasted potential.

Im not meaning to sound like a broken record I’m just saying I don’t see it as just fixing mistakes.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:36 pm

We can argue about the Spinosaurus endlessly, but I honestly think what they’ve done with Isla Sorna is the single biggest fuck-you to the fans that Universal has ever pulled. Worse than the Spino killing the Rex. It doesn’t matter how the dinosaurs died. The truth is this: the filmmakers never wanted anything to do with Sorna, so at first they retconned it (per Trevorrow’s 2015 comments). Then they decided to have their cake and eat it too by killing off EVERYTHING on Sorna. It’s such a vile, repulsive move, destroying the home of our childhood dreams just so they can throw around “Eruption=Extinction,” as if these creatures wouldn’t be worth saving if they weren’t the last of their kind.

And AGAIN, if the whole point is to save the dinosaurs from extinction, why are they rescuing the only Tyrannosaurus when they don’t plan to clone a mate? Why do the JW stegosaurs, supposedly from Sorna, look COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from the Sorna stock? Why are the filmmakers so averse to just acknowledging there’s another island with dinosaurs on it? Did they honestly think people wouldn’t care about the Nublar ones?

Going into this, my initial thoughts were that the filmmakers had two options:
A) Retcon TLW and JP3 out of the franchise and don’t mention it
Or
B) Establish Sorna as the intended destination of the rescued dinosaurs, only for them to go to Lockwood’s
Incredibly, they landed on an option so insulting it didn’t even occur to me that they would go there:
C) Keep Sorna canon, but kill off its entire remaining population so as to make it obsolete.

I know this has no bearing on the quality of Fallen Kingdom as a film, but honestly this confirmation just cut the legs right off of my hype. Maybe I’ll get over it, maybe not, but right now I am just not excited at all about this movie.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:49 pm

@BoulderFaceplant wrote:
We can argue about the Spinosaurus endlessly, but I honestly think what they’ve done with Isla Sorna is the single biggest fuck-you to the fans that Universal has ever pulled. Worse than the Spino killing the Rex. It doesn’t matter how the dinosaurs died. The truth is this: the filmmakers never wanted anything to do with Sorna, so at first they retconned it (per Trevorrow’s 2015 comments). Then they decided to have their cake and eat it too by killing off EVERYTHING on Sorna. It’s such a vile, repulsive move, destroying the home of our childhood dreams just so they can throw around “Eruption=Extinction,” as if these creatures wouldn’t be worth saving if they weren’t the last of their kind.

And AGAIN, if the whole point is to save the dinosaurs from extinction, why are they rescuing the only Tyrannosaurus when they don’t plan to clone a mate? Why do the JW stegosaurs, supposedly from Sorna, look COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from the Sorna stock? Why are the filmmakers so averse to just acknowledging there’s another island with dinosaurs on it? Did they honestly think people wouldn’t care about the Nublar ones?

Going into this, my initial thoughts were that the filmmakers had two options:
A) Retcon TLW and JP3 out of the franchise and don’t mention it
Or
B) Establish Sorna as the intended destination of the rescued dinosaurs, only for them to go to Lockwood’s
Incredibly, they landed on an option so insulting it didn’t even occur to me that they would go there:
C) Keep Sorna canon, but kill off its entire remaining population so as to make it obsolete.

I know this has no bearing on the quality of Fallen Kingdom as a film, but honestly this confirmation just cut the legs right off of my hype. Maybe I’ll get over it, maybe not, but right now I am just not excited at all about this movie.

Option B is what I was hoping for so badly. It would still make sense to send a team to Nublar since all the Dino’s there would die. And they could lie and say it’s a relocation mission.

That way Sorna remains populated and the third movie will focus on the mainland anyway. Dang.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:08 am

I think its safe to say that Sorna won't be mentioned in Fallen Kingdom or JW3. The filmmakers have made it blatantly clear that they don't give a shit about the first two sequels, and with the series moving to the mainland these DPG are the last we'll ever hear of Sorna in the film canon.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:17 am

Whilst all this is going on here, how many people outside of this forum actually give a damn that the events of the Sorna movies have effectively been cancelled out? The sad thing is, I think most are either okay with this or don't give a rat's arse either way, or worse throw a tantrum if they were not retconned or actively acknowledged. The internet drove the ever-reactionary Universal to this.

With all that negativity seen in other franchises and fandoms like Jurassic Park, Star Wars, RWBY (fuck you, spoiled entitled so called fans), Middle-earth (fuck you Lindsay Ellis), you can imagine how difficult is is to even want to look forward to the release date for fear of another let-down.

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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:57 am

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
Whilst all this is going on here, how many people outside of this forum actually give a damn that the events of the Sorna movies have effectively been cancelled out? The sad thing is, I think most are either okay with this or don't give a rat's arse either way, or worse throw a tantrum if they were not retconned or actively acknowledged. The internet drove the ever-reactionary Universal to this.

With all that negativity seen in other franchises and fandoms like Jurassic Park, Star Wars, RWBY (fuck you, spoiled entitled so called fans), Middle-earth (fuck you Lindsay Ellis), you can imagine how difficult is is to even want to look forward to the release date for fear of another let-down.

Or an outright reboot/remake for that matter. Think about it, many fans do not like how Universal/Spielberg is treating this franchise and if they do get the rights back and announce they do such a thing, then it will NOT be a massive success like they think because many fans are going to ask "Why should we trust you with this franchise when you mishandled to original one multiple times?" That is not going to be an easy question for Universal and and Spielberg to answer. Yes, it will make a profit, but it won't be successful. Think JP3, Zilla 98, or whatever profitable movies that are still considered failures.

Spielberg may have got away from accepting any responsibility for letting Michael Bay run the Transformers franchise into the ground, but I don't think he can copy that here.

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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:01 am

@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@BoulderFaceplant wrote:
So this basically confirms that the Rex family was killed either by a viral strain or the Spinosaurus. I have no words for the stupidity of this. Not only is that a huge middle finger to the fans and audiences who got invested in TLW’s Rex plot, but it pretty much defeats the purpose of saving Rexy from Nublar. She’s the last of her kind! Why on earth would they try to save her as part of this extinction prevention if her species is already functionally extinct? Utterly disgusted by this version of canon shat out just to contrive the Nublar stock into being the last dinosaurs. “Eruption=extinction” is so unnecessary, and appeals to this modern blockbuster way of thinking where the stakes have to be as simplistic as possible to appeal to the sub-70-IQ crowd.

I agree, not only that, but why didn't Masrani demand a new batch of dinosaur be made to replace that ones that died out? Also, don't the other islands have dinosaurs as well? And what about the fact that the U.S. Military was supposed to be protecting the islands? Even more after what happened in JP3?

I honesty think more then ever that Spielberg and Universal have no idea how much fans love TLW and that they have no intent on actually PROPERLY explaining any of the plot holes that took place i JP3 or in between JP3 and JW via an animated cartooon show. At this point, TLW seems to be the last JP movie that had any common sense. I was willing to lower my expectations for JW but I had them raised much higher for this new movie. From what I have seen, it only seems to get dumber. Finding out how it will begin alone made my stomach churn.

New Dinos = more money. Seriously, I actually can't believe how badly people are moaning about this. Since when were there Dinosaurs on any of the other islands? The U.S. Military WERE (past tense) protecting the island. That could've changed since. Again, it's been a long time since the events of JP3.

What exactly do you want from the story of this franchise? Where would you take it?

Honestly, I feel like the fanbase for this franchise is turning into the Star Wars fanbase. The filmmakers literally can't seem to do anything without getting fingers pointed at them.

Don´t blame the fans for the filmmakers being out of touch with the fans.

If the fans are mad, there are valid reasons. Fans are not getting mad just for the LOLs. Both The Last Jedi and so far these tie in Fallen Kingdom websites have done plenty of things that really ruin the fond memories longtime fans have of previous films. They are not just changing things up a little bit, both The Last Jedi and these tie in websites are essentially saying ´´F... whatever came before that you loved about this series´´ in many ways.

You have to understand that despite what the internet tells you, The Lost World is held in high regard by most fans of the Jurassic Park franchise. Most fans have as much fond memories and nostalgia from it as the original Jurassic Park. To many the T Rex family is as iconic as anything in the first Jurassic Park.

So you can not expect fans to not have any reaction whatsoever when Universal is more or less telling us that nothing from The Lost World and Jurassic Park 3 really mattered.

The Lost World is tied with Jurassic Park as arguably my 2 favorite films as well as one my fondest childhood memories. So watching Universal tell me that everything you loved about them is now gone and not relevant at all to the story of Jurassic World and Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom is a huge middle finger not only to me but for many many longtime fans.

Then some tell me to stop complaining about Universal and wait untill Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom is out. But the fact remains, (and it is now more obvious than ever before) I was right about 2 things, Universal does seem to really believe the myth that nobody has ever cared about The Lost World and this franchise is being run in a very similar way to Star Wars.

I get a lot of unnecessary negative votes whenever I say that, but I am sorry, it is the truth. I am not saying anything wrong or inaccurate. Now we are at a point where these sequels are being made mostly for 2 reasons, the general audience and money. Fans have to recognize that. And on a personal level I can not help but to feel kinda how I felt with The Last Jedi, hopeless about the franchise. Now I am not saying that Fallen Kingdom will be as bad as The Last Jedi in any way, it might have some good things but still we can not sit here and ignore this, pretend everything is ok and that Fallen Kingdom will be a masterpiece done with longtime hardcore fans in mind.


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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:38 am

You know maybe movie franchises overall should just end, how about that?

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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:12 am

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
You know maybe movie franchises overall should just end, how about that?

Nah, just get better people who actually care about the properties and have an idea what they are doing. I find it amazing how more in Hollywood isn't doing just that. Quality movies always lead to better movie studios. It's not just the MCU with Disney, but in history in general. The original 1933 King Kong saved RKO studios and The Little Mermaid and the original Beauty and the Beast set Disney on it's second golden age during the 1990's-early 2000's.

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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:29 am

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
Whilst all this is going on here, how many people outside of this forum actually give a damn that the events of the Sorna movies have effectively been cancelled out? The sad thing is, I think most are either okay with this or don't give a rat's arse either way, or worse throw a tantrum if they were not retconned or actively acknowledged. The internet drove the ever-reactionary Universal to this.

I concur; from talking to friends and family (essentially the general audience) all of them think that all of the movies from the Jurassic Park franchise take place on the same island as that of the first one, Isla Nublar. When telling them that the second and third movies took place on Isla Sorna, they react in the same way as Udesky did, “there are two islands with dinosaurs on them?”

And honestly I don’t blame them for thinking because Isla Sorna (from the movies) is quite easily one of the most forgettable aspects of the franchise thanks to both Lost World and JP///'s poor portrayal of the island and never justifying its existence and importance. The stories of both movies could easily be rewritten to be set on Isla Nublar and it wouldn’t have made much difference to the story.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:29 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
You know maybe movie franchises overall should just end, how about that?

Nah, just get better people who actually care about the properties and have an idea what they are doing. I find it amazing how more in Hollywood isn't doing just that. Quality movies always lead to better movie studios. It's not just the MCU with Disney, but in history in general. The original 1933 King Kong saved RKO studios and The Little Mermaid and the original Beauty and the Beast set Disney on it's second golden age during the 1990's-early 2000's.

Then, for the time being all we the audience can do is wait and vote with our wallets, respond to quality material when it shows up and reject it when it doesn't cut it. We're already seeing it in action. But I've been seeing too much of this depressing narrative lately in other series besides Star Wars and Jurassic Park.

I may have been adversely influenced by other posts here but won't parse blame. I apologize for letting my negative emotions get the better of me.

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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:19 pm

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
You know maybe movie franchises overall should just end, how about that?

Nah, just get better people who actually care about the properties and have an idea what they are doing. I find it amazing how more in Hollywood isn't doing just that. Quality movies always lead to better movie studios. It's not just the MCU with Disney, but in history in general. The original 1933 King Kong saved RKO studios and The Little Mermaid and the original Beauty and the Beast set Disney on it's second golden age during the 1990's-early 2000's.

Then, for the time being all we the audience can do is wait and vote with our wallets, respond to quality material when it shows up and reject it when it doesn't cut it. We're already seeing it in action. But I've been seeing too much of this depressing narrative lately in other series besides Star Wars and Jurassic Park.

I may have been adversely influenced by other posts here but won't parse blame. I apologize for letting my negative emotions get the better of me.

Don't blame yourself too much. I was the one of the main reasons for you getting like this and I'm really sorry this happened. It's just that I really had higher hopes for this movie and I thought that Universal would have made this bigger then it was, even more so with The Avengers changing how franchises should be handled. As I said before, while I'm an MCU fan, I DON"T want it to crush and devour everything in its path like to 50-80+ ft long super anacondas that live in the Amazon do. Sadly, with so many movie studios being in shaky, if not outright poor footing (Sony's movie branch and Paramount) and Universal's ineptitude and Spielberg not getting it, (and at this point, being too old to care) that might happen with this franchise and that just disgusts and saddens me.

It's just when I see a franchise that I grew up with, one that helped make me, be so mishandled in a time that it can't afford to be, I can't help but be grumpy and frustrated. At this point, I'm only planning to get the Cossosal /Stomp & Strike T. rex toy and not much else. And even then, I'm only doing it as a dinosaur toy collector (I have a respectable, although not larger collection) to reward Mattel for doing a good job. It's the only thing that I still care about at this point.

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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:28 pm

I'm not even really arguing that I want more movies at this point. I just find it really sad what they did to Sorna.

They need to have a line that talks about site B in the movie and how it's got no animals anymore. Viral sites are neat and all but I'd like it to be brought up in the movie to the whole audience. Surely the idea of all the Dino's being moved to Nublar is worthy of two or three lines of dialogue.

Sure we can say most people don't care but also what would it hurt?


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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:34 pm

@Troyal1 wrote:
I'm not even really arguing that I want more movies at this point. I just find it really sad what they did to Sorna.

They need to have a line that talks about site B in the movie and how it's got no animals anymore. Viral sites are neat and all but I'd like it to be brought up in the movie to the whole audience. Surely the idea of all the Dino's being moved to Nublar is worthy of two or three lines of dialogue.

Sure we can say most people don't care but also what would it hurt?

At this point, ensuring that these viral sites are hard canon will only piss me off even more, which means that, of course, Universal made it happen in the movie anyway.

I can't tell you how disgusted I am at this whole thing right now.

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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:59 pm

With a select few users here making their disappointment with the new (as yet unreleased) film being made clear, I wonder how much stock should be put into the reviews and critic/audience ratings. We're at a point now where a fresh RT critics score doesn't count for much when audience ratings are abjectly low (The Last Jedi, Indy 4, Superman Returns), and yet where audience reception can be at least moderately kinder than official critical responses (Zack Snyder's filmography, The Greatest Showman, Hook, the original Jumanji). And even middling audience and critic scores for films that are frankly underrated like The Lost World. In other words, when all is said and done you are your own best judge of a film's quality, and soon it's going to get interesting as a JP fan.

I find it strange that while the heroes' plans to move the dinosaurs off Isla Nublar is well documented in the trailers, hardly anyone says where they're going. If they're going to a "secure facility" on the mainland (as Ludlow once put it), possibly one provided by Lockwood, then that would be counter-intuitive to what Claire's newfound ethos is about and the film would have lost me. After all, if the DPG sites indicate that Sorna the island is still intact, even if the original ecosystem has been lost

Also, Trevorrow mentioned once that open-sourcing and competition between InGen and other bio-genetics companies was also in the cards for a future sequel, thus leading to a world were more dinosaurs are being cloned across the globe. But since cloning of new dinosaurs has been restricted by new in-universe laws it makes me think that the poached/pillaged Sorna dinosaurs may have ended up in the hands of other immoral companies and kept in secret. That doesn't mitigate that the Sorna ecosystem appears to have been destroyed (which I fully understand the angry/upset reactions to), but some specimens may have been kept alive.

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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:00 pm

Some in the general audience might not be able to tell the difference between Nublar and Sorna.

But almost all hardcore fans like Sorna and almost no hardcore fans consider it forgettable.

That's why I ask everyone to put yourselves in the shoes of those of us who love The Lost World. We have considered TLW THE Jurassic Park sequel for many many years and now in addition to Youtube telling us that "Nobody cares for it" for over 10 years, we now have to also watch Universal doing everything in their power to make sure TLW is irrelevant in both JW and JW:FK and that what's important to the series is just, JP, JW and JW:FK.

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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:46 pm

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
With a select few users here making their disappointment with the new (as yet unreleased) film being made clear, I wonder how much stock should be put into the reviews and critic/audience ratings. We're at a point now where a fresh RT critics score doesn't count for much when audience ratings are abjectly low (The Last Jedi, Indy 4, Superman Returns), and yet where audience reception can be at least moderately kinder than official critical responses (Zack Snyder's filmography, The Greatest Showman, Hook, the original Jumanji). And even middling audience and critic scores for films that are frankly underrated like The Lost World. In other words, when all is said and done you are your own best judge of a film's quality, and soon it's going to get interesting as a JP fan.

I find it strange that while the heroes' plans to move the dinosaurs off Isla Nublar is well documented in the trailers, hardly anyone says where they're going. If they're going to a "secure facility" on the mainland (as Ludlow once put it), possibly one provided by Lockwood, then that would be counter-intuitive to what Claire's newfound ethos is about and the film would have lost me. After all, if the DPG sites indicate that Sorna the island is still intact, even if the original ecosystem has been lost

Also, Trevorrow mentioned once that open-sourcing and competition between InGen and other bio-genetics companies was also in the cards for a future sequel, thus leading to a world were more dinosaurs are being cloned across the globe. But since cloning of new dinosaurs has been restricted by new in-universe laws it makes me think that the poached/pillaged Sorna dinosaurs may have ended up in the hands of other immoral companies and kept in secret. That doesn't mitigate that the Sorna ecosystem appears to have been destroyed (which I fully understand the angry/upset reactions to), but some specimens may have been kept alive.

All i want is a few lines about it in the movie at this point. Any acknowledgment about site B really.

I am still excited to see the movie, it just feels like it would be so simple to have a quick explanation in the movie and move on.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:47 pm

@BoulderFaceplant wrote:
We can argue about the Spinosaurus endlessly, but I honestly think what they’ve done with Isla Sorna is the single biggest fuck-you to the fans that Universal has ever pulled. Worse than the Spino killing the Rex. It doesn’t matter how the dinosaurs died. The truth is this: the filmmakers never wanted anything to do with Sorna, so at first they retconned it (per Trevorrow’s 2015 comments). Then they decided to have their cake and eat it too by killing off EVERYTHING on Sorna. It’s such a vile, repulsive move, destroying the home of our childhood dreams just so they can throw around “Eruption=Extinction,” as if these creatures wouldn’t be worth saving if they weren’t the last of their kind.

And AGAIN, if the whole point is to save the dinosaurs from extinction, why are they rescuing the only Tyrannosaurus when they don’t plan to clone a mate? Why do the JW stegosaurs, supposedly from Sorna, look COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from the Sorna stock? Why are the filmmakers so averse to just acknowledging there’s another island with dinosaurs on it? Did they honestly think people wouldn’t care about the Nublar ones?

Going into this, my initial thoughts were that the filmmakers had two options:
A) Retcon TLW and JP3 out of the franchise and don’t mention it
Or
B) Establish Sorna as the intended destination of the rescued dinosaurs, only for them to go to Lockwood’s
Incredibly, they landed on an option so insulting it didn’t even occur to me that they would go there:
C) Keep Sorna canon, but kill off its entire remaining population so as to make it obsolete.

I know this has no bearing on the quality of Fallen Kingdom as a film, but honestly this confirmation just cut the legs right off of my hype. Maybe I’ll get over it, maybe not, but right now I am just not excited at all about this movie.

You're blowing it way out of proportion, imo. Kinda sucks you feel that way.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:58 pm

#TRexSpinorematch wrote:
Some in the general audience might not be able to tell the difference between Nublar and Sorna.

But almost all hardcore fans like Sorna and almost no hardcore fans consider it forgettable.

That's why I ask everyone to put yourselves in the shoes of those of us who love The Lost World.  We have considered TLW THE Jurassic Park sequel for many many years and now in addition to Youtube  telling us that "Nobody cares for it" for over 10 years, we now have to also watch Universal doing everything in their power to make sure TLW is irrelevant in both JW and JW:FK and that what's important to the series is just, JP, JW and JW:FK.

I love TLW. But to me, the decision to destroy the ecosystem of Sorna is absolutely fine. It's been so long since JP3, why is it insulting? it's a progression in the story. I'm starting to think most fans just don't like change.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:04 pm

I honestly feel like this is gonna be a little die plot where everyone believes the ecosystem of Sorna has been wiped out, but at the end of the film they find out that life found a way and there are Dinosaurs still living there after all. Don't write it off yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:55 pm

@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

You're blowing it way out of proportion, imo. Kinda sucks you feel that way.

Think about it. Sorna is the most mysterious, haunting, atmospheric setting in the entire franchise, by a mile. Unlike Nublar, it’s more than just an island. It’s a vast wilderness full of unseen danger and hidden secrets, a literal Lost World cut off from humanity yet existing on our Earth.

But fuck that, right? Let’s just say the dinosaurs either got shipped away to Nublar (and magically changed size, color, and shape in the process) or died for literally no apparent reason. Let’s just contrive a way for the Nublar dinosaurs to be the last ones on Earth. Let’s say that the DPG’s goal is to save species from extinction, only for them to bend over backwards to save the functionally-extinct, single-specimen T. rex. Let’s destroy your childhood dreams, just to bump up the stakes a little bit more for our volcano movie. It’s selfish and revolting.

I never imagined myself to be someone who’d get so upset about something like this. At the tender age of 24, with my own bills to pay, I thought I was over this. But this... This is the equivalent of nuking Tatooine in Star Wars, or killing off the OT characters offscreen and without mention. It’s unthinkable that they would do something like this.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:54 am

I understand why some people are upset about this. To be frank, I find it a little bewildering myself, but I think it's important for us as a fandom to not get too down. Look for bright spots, think of ways around this, or think of ways that the story can be progressed, and realize that even if Sorna isn't mentioned once, and this information is all we have on the fate of the island, the door can be re-opened extremely easily. A simple line of dialogue could restore Sorna back to its full glory ("The reports from to DPG were wrong, Sorna is flourishing"....something to that extent). Hell, the page itself could be entirely retconned if someone sees fit too.

Point is that there are numerous ways the door to Sorna can be re-opened. The worst thing we can do as a fandom is allow things to get too septic. If that happens, people won't want to jump aboard, and eventually the franchise really will die.

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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:33 am

Sorna is the second most important place in the franchise.

It is not a minor change. It's not just that it is changing, it's the way it has been changed (Or more or less destroyed?)

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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:55 am

@BoulderFaceplant wrote:
@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

You're blowing it way out of proportion, imo. Kinda sucks you feel that way.

Think about it. Sorna is the most mysterious, haunting, atmospheric setting in the entire franchise, by a mile. Unlike Nublar, it’s more than just an island. It’s a vast wilderness full of unseen danger and hidden secrets, a literal Lost World cut off from humanity yet existing on our Earth.

But fuck that, right? Let’s just say the dinosaurs either got shipped away to Nublar (and magically changed size, color, and shape in the process) or died for literally no apparent reason. Let’s just contrive a way for the Nublar dinosaurs to be the last ones on Earth. Let’s say that the DPG’s goal is to save species from extinction, only for them to bend over backwards to save the functionally-extinct, single-specimen T. rex. Let’s destroy your childhood dreams, just to bump up the stakes a little bit more for our volcano movie. It’s selfish and revolting.

I never imagined myself to be someone who’d get so upset about something like this. At the tender age of 24, with my own bills to pay, I thought I was over this. But this... This is the equivalent of nuking Tatooine in Star Wars, or killing off the OT characters offscreen and without mention. It’s unthinkable that they would do something like this.

It's not hard to think that maybe those Dinosaurs from Sorna have since died and have been replaced by a new batch in the many years between JW and JP3, hence the different designs. Destroying childhood dreams? That's an exaggeration if I've heard one. The Lost World still exists, it's not like they're burning all the copies they have of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:57 am

#TRexSpinorematch wrote:
Sorna is the second most important place in the franchise.

It is not a minor change. It's not just that it is changing, it's the way it has been changed (Or more or less destroyed?)

It's not destroyed though, just the Dinosaurs are few or don't live there anymore. Nublar is literally being blown up, but I'm not complaining as long as the story gets somewhere, which I trust it will.
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PostSubject: Re: Dinosaur Protection Group   Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:30 am

Remember everyone, Michael Crichton blew up Nublar and let Sorna go extinct by disease. This isn't new territory for us, nor should it be surprising.

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