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 Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?

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BarrytheOnyx
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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Mon 19 Mar 2018 - 12:32

While no one really refutes the fact that Spielberg exerted more influence on the production of Jurassic World than compared to Jurassic Park 3, it struck me more as Spielberg trying to actively mentor Trevorrow and prevent another JP3 or Kingdom of the Crystal Skull type of letdown. If I were in Colin's position, I'd probably be just as likely to listen and take on board as much of Spielberg's advice as I could. With J.A. Bayona taking the helm, there hasn't been as much word of Spielberg being as involved, suggesting that he trusts to the more experienced director's skills.

Compare this to, say, Josh Trank where the relationship between the studio and the director (also a green director with only one hit movie under his belt) was way more toxic than compared to the likes of Warner Bros, Universal and even Disney, and was ultimately a remnant of Fox's less than stellar period under Tom Rothman, who greenlit Trank's version of Fantastic Four. Nowadays, stories of director/studio falling-outs from Lucasfilm (never mind the intense fandom division) are more public than ever.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Mon 19 Mar 2018 - 16:49

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
While no one really refutes the fact that Spielberg exerted more influence on the production of Jurassic World than compared to Jurassic Park 3, it struck me more as Spielberg trying to actively mentor Trevorrow and prevent another JP3 or Kingdom of the Crystal Skull type of letdown. If I were in Colin's position, I'd probably be just as likely to listen and take on board as much of Spielberg's advice as I could. With J.A. Bayona taking the helm, there hasn't been as much word of Spielberg being as involved, suggesting that he trusts to the more experienced director's skills.

Compare this to, say, Josh Trank where the relationship between the studio and the director (also a green director with only one hit movie under his belt) was way more toxic than compared to the likes of Warner Bros, Universal and even Disney, and was ultimately a remnant of Fox's less than stellar period under Tom Rothman, who greenlit Trank's version of Fantastic Four. Nowadays, stories of director/studio falling-outs from Lucasfilm (never mind the intense fandom division) are more public than ever.

^ That is very nicely put and I feel highly logical and rational to the situation here. So yeah, I agree with all this about a thousand percent here. The fact Bayona was given the room more or less speaks more to the fact he's got more experience. I do agree with Spielberg trying to prevent negative backlash like JP3 had or even Indy 4 had. That said, if Sorna is going to be mentioned it will be either within these next two films. It's too big of a plot point to leave unresolved altogether as well. Everybody just needs to chill out and wait for FK here. Make whatever proclamations and predictions from that about the future.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Mon 19 Mar 2018 - 18:16

I’m all up for everyone taking a chill pill, it’s going to take until June for FK to get here after all.
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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Tue 20 Mar 2018 - 11:30

Pacific Rim Uprising's first reviews aren't so great. Mentionings of a generic, underdeveloped script. Just thought it'd be relevant to mention here since Emily Carmichael is on board JW3.
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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Tue 20 Mar 2018 - 14:59

@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:
Pacific Rim Uprising's first reviews aren't so great. Mentionings of a generic, underdeveloped script. Just thought it'd be relevant to mention here since Emily Carmichael is on board JW3.

Doesn't surprise me, why Uni would hire this Emily girl is beyond me? Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Tue 20 Mar 2018 - 15:41

@dance2nite wrote:
@Six-Foot Turkey wrote:
Pacific Rim Uprising's first reviews aren't so great. Mentionings of a generic, underdeveloped script. Just thought it'd be relevant to mention here since Emily Carmichael is on board JW3.

Doesn't surprise me, why Uni would hire this Emily girl is beyond me? Mad

I assume since Derek Conolly was initially on board Pacific rim Uprising, he may have recommended her. Would've been good to get someone with more experience, though.
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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Mon 26 Mar 2018 - 10:26

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
While no one really refutes the fact that Spielberg exerted more influence on the production of Jurassic World than compared to Jurassic Park 3, it struck me more as Spielberg trying to actively mentor Trevorrow and prevent another JP3 or Kingdom of the Crystal Skull type of letdown. If I were in Colin's position, I'd probably be just as likely to listen and take on board as much of Spielberg's advice as I could. With J.A. Bayona taking the helm, there hasn't been as much word of Spielberg being as involved, suggesting that he trusts to the more experienced director's skills.

At this point, I'm worried that Trevorrow is learning the wrong lessons from Spielberg, who was not only never a franchise director, but also, at this point, doesn't get how franchises have changed in the post-Avengers world and may be too old to care/get it.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Mon 26 Mar 2018 - 12:01

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
While no one really refutes the fact that Spielberg exerted more influence on the production of Jurassic World than compared to Jurassic Park 3, it struck me more as Spielberg trying to actively mentor Trevorrow and prevent another JP3 or Kingdom of the Crystal Skull type of letdown. If I were in Colin's position, I'd probably be just as likely to listen and take on board as much of Spielberg's advice as I could. With J.A. Bayona taking the helm, there hasn't been as much word of Spielberg being as involved, suggesting that he trusts to the more experienced director's skills.

At this point, I'm worried that Trevorrow is learning the wrong lessons from Spielberg, who was not only never a franchise director, but also, at this point, doesn't get how franchises have changed in the post-Avengers world and may be too old to care/get it.

I'm curious as to what wrong lessons you think pose a serious threat to the films with Trevorrow as executive producer along with Spielberg. And with all that said and done, what's to say Trevorrow himself isn't at least observing what the competition has been doing to keep their franchise going? Marvel with all their two to three movies a year is going on ten years as of 2018, while Jurassic World needs to keep going up until 2021 and then it's future becomes unclear. I think the latter is a very different operation to what the MCU has been running.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Mon 26 Mar 2018 - 13:11

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
While no one really refutes the fact that Spielberg exerted more influence on the production of Jurassic World than compared to Jurassic Park 3, it struck me more as Spielberg trying to actively mentor Trevorrow and prevent another JP3 or Kingdom of the Crystal Skull type of letdown. If I were in Colin's position, I'd probably be just as likely to listen and take on board as much of Spielberg's advice as I could. With J.A. Bayona taking the helm, there hasn't been as much word of Spielberg being as involved, suggesting that he trusts to the more experienced director's skills.

At this point, I'm worried that Trevorrow is learning the wrong lessons from Spielberg, who was not only never a franchise director, but also, at this point, doesn't get how franchises have changed in the post-Avengers world and may be too old to care/get it.

I'm curious as to what wrong lessons you think pose a serious threat to the films with Trevorrow as executive producer along with Spielberg. And with all that said and done, what's to say Trevorrow himself isn't at least observing what the competition has been doing to keep their franchise going? Marvel with all their two to three movies a year is going on ten years as of 2018, while Jurassic World needs to keep going up until 2021 and then it's future becomes unclear. I think the latter is a very different operation to what the MCU has been running.

Mainly these:

1. The first 2 sequels are bad, so it's ok to treat them like trash. This is based on how TLW was treated at first and, despite it's increase in popularity over the years, I don't think that Uni or Spielberg noticed.

2. It doesn't need to grow bigger. Based on how Spielberg not being a franchise man.

3. Don't try anything new even if it's basic. Based on both Uni and Spielberg seem to learn the wrong lessons from past failures: How the JP3 Spino was handled, no new dinos, etc. I take it you've seen my list of ideas on this page. Is it that hard to translate them onto the big screen in a JP movie? I say no.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Tue 27 Mar 2018 - 7:57

And so much for the internet saying everyone hated TLW and that it is considered as bad as JP3 and yet, I don't remember a backlash or a single person hating it from 1997 to around 2004. In fact I would dare to say that most fans at the very least like it and accept it.

That's why I don't get why Universal believes that TLW is something that fans really want to avoid or ignore.

Nobody really seems to actually hate TLW. Neither has there ever been a The Last Jedi like backlash to.it.

It is only "hated" on by some youtube critics who keep saying it is as hated as JP3. Critics who may not even know that much about the franchise.

So remind me again how could Universal.believe that TLW is something very unpopular? JP3 is the only JP movie that is actually hated and the only JP movie that had a clear backlash in 2001 and it is still hated by many. No such thing with TLW.

If Universal does really believe TLW is as hated as JP3...It really does raise questions about how much do.they know...
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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Sun 14 Oct 2018 - 10:58

I've decided to revive this due to a certain incident that has happened.


For the better part of this year, I've heard a bunch of excuses/reasons why this franchise can't grow large and the fanbase can't do anything.


Wanting the franchise to grow? It would be nice, but it's good as is.

Sorna getting wiped out? Not happy, but we can't do jack.

Sites instead of an animated show that connects the 2 trilogies together? Fine by us.

But the Legacy JP3 Spino toy not coming out worldwide? BLODDY MURDER! Let's start a petition.

Does anybody else see how weird this is? And don't we "We have no power." If fans and kids writing letters led to the Stegosaurus being in TLW, then surely something like that could have had happened by now with the franchise.

I just find it so odd that the JP3 Spino toy is the hill many fans what to fight for and not the actual franchise.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Sun 14 Oct 2018 - 12:01

The thing I've come to realize that sometimes you have to be the one to start the movement and the wave needed for the change. That's true in the real world too. Please don't piss over the Legacy Spino thing, I may not have organized it, but I have been calling for it for a while and unable to lead the charge because of my health. If you started a petition to call for an expansion of the series I'd sign. I'd love to see JP grow. I'd love to see what we get with Sorna. That's never been an issue of debate for me. JP should be bigger than it is, but Spielberg has been obstructing that since the inception because he's a film director/producer and not a franchise director/producer. Trevorrow can change that, but the danger is getting into the trap George Lucas is forever stuck in.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Sun 14 Oct 2018 - 14:23

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
I've decided to revive this due to a certain incident that has happened.


For the better part of this year, I've heard a bunch of excuses/reasons why this franchise can't grow large and the fanbase can't do anything.


Wanting the franchise to grow? It would be nice, but it's good as is.

Sorna getting wiped out? Not happy, but we can't do jack.

Sites instead of an animated show that connects the 2 trilogies together? Fine by us.

But the Legacy JP3 Spino toy not coming out worldwide? BLODDY MURDER! Let's start a petition.

Does anybody else see how weird this is? And don't we "We have no power." If fans and kids writing letters led to the Stegosaurus being in TLW, then surely something like that could have had happened by now with the franchise.

I just find it so odd that the JP3 Spino toy is the hill many fans what to fight for and not the actual franchise.

I would say that the main difference is that the direction the franchise is going in is something that's debatable. We don't know exactly what the next film will entail. Some people like the direction the franchise is moving in and some people don't. There's never going to be a unified front unless the franchise sinks to a point where the films are being destroyed by critics ala Transformers sequels, the films themselves aren't making any money, and the extra stuff (games, toys, etc etc etc...) is either nonexistent or of such low quality that nobody would want to spend on money on it.

The Spinosaurus on the other hand? I can't imagine anybody not wanting that thing to see worldwide distribution. It's something that the fandom is united on. That's the difference. There's no pushback from "the other side" because the other side doesn't exist. People either want to see the Spino distributed worldwide or they just simply don't care either way. It's something people can galvanize around without having to confront any differing viewpoints. It's a much more black and white issue.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Mon 15 Oct 2018 - 18:11

The Spinosaurus toy is an existing product that requires only manufacturing and distribution; it is not a demand for an entirely new product with new production costs, as would come from an animated series, which would cost millions of dollars merely to produce with no guarantee it would reach what an industry executive would qualify as a financial success. Not to mention, the existence of the tie-in websites is entirely separate from any potential demand for an animated series, and both would likely exist in any case. It's also pretty well-known Spielberg is the one who axed the animated series.

It's important to keep in mind that in the public eye, Jurassic Park is still mostly one beloved film and some red-headed stepchildren, and a single film isn't enough to sustain a global franchise -- for most iconic franchises, the real reach and brand came after one major sequel proved successful in its own right. Universal Pictures waited for Jurassic Park 3 to try to market the franchise as a global brand and shot itself in the foot, and then left it on hiatus in anticipation of another successful sequel, and played it safe (imo) by waiting for Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom to push that hard again.

I'm disappointed that Universal didn't try harder in the hiatus period, and that a JP4 didn't materialize sooner, but I think the idea it's because fans aren't making enough petitions is silly.
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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Tue 16 Oct 2018 - 16:08

@TyrannosaurTJ wrote:
The thing I've come to realize that sometimes you have to be the one to start the movement and the wave needed for the change. That's true in the real world too. Please don't piss over the Legacy Spino thing, I may not have organized it, but I have been calling for it for a while and unable to lead the charge because of my health. If you started a petition to call for an expansion of the series I'd sign. I'd love to see JP grow. I'd love to see what we get with Sorna. That's never been an issue of debate for me. JP should be bigger than it is, but Spielberg has been obstructing that since the inception because he's a film director/producer and not a franchise director/producer. Trevorrow can change that, but the danger is getting into the trap George Lucas is forever stuck in.

This new movie really made me sour on him via his writing. I've come to the conclusion that the DPG site was really a cheap band-aid for most of the plot holes I saw in the movie. Sorry, but having a movie lean on a site to explain away the plot holes doesn't make it a good movie. The only plot hole it didn't cover was how the dinosaurs that escaped in the USA wouldn't get wiped out by the National Guard/SWAT within 1-3 months. Good luck trying to BS out of that one. It just feels that he has no idea what he's doing. While I defended him after KK fired him, I've come to the conclusion he she was justified in doing so, but she did it for the wrong reasons and handled it poorly. This franchise needs a far more experienced director. One who understands that this franchise was rooted in brains and common sense, not this bombastic crap from JP3 to today. JW has some of that, but it was too dumbed down for it's good.


@JVM wrote:
Universal Pictures waited for Jurassic Park 3 to try to market the franchise as a global brand and shot itself in the foot, and then left it on hiatus in anticipation of another successful sequel, and played it safe (imo) by waiting for Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom to push that hard again.

I'm disappointed that Universal didn't try harder in the hiatus period, and that a JP4 didn't materialize sooner, but I think the idea it's because fans aren't making enough petitions is silly.

It doesn't help that JP3 was made for the sake of Universal having a JP trilogy and really nothing else. Some time off was needed for the brand to recover via fan hate...but I can't help but wonder how much of that was done on purpose for the sake of having many fans just fade away so that Uni can do whatever they wanted with less people holding their feet to the fire like SW fans are doing with Disney/KK.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Tue 16 Oct 2018 - 17:33

@JVM wrote:
The Spinosaurus toy is an existing product that requires only manufacturing and distribution; it is not a demand for an entirely new product with new production costs, as would come from an animated series, which would cost millions of dollars merely to produce with no guarantee it would reach what an industry executive would qualify as a financial success. Not to mention, the existence of the tie-in websites is entirely separate from any potential demand for an animated series, and both would likely exist in any case. It's also pretty well-known Spielberg is the one who axed the animated series.

It's important to keep in mind that in the public eye, Jurassic Park is still mostly one beloved film and some red-headed stepchildren, and a single film isn't enough to sustain a global franchise -- for most iconic franchises, the real reach and brand came after one major sequel proved successful in its own right. Universal Pictures waited for Jurassic Park 3 to try to market the franchise as a global brand and shot itself in the foot, and then left it on hiatus in anticipation of another successful sequel, and played it safe (imo) by waiting for Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom to push that hard again.

I'm disappointed that Universal didn't try harder in the hiatus period, and that a JP4 didn't materialize sooner, but I think the idea it's because fans aren't making enough petitions is silly.

These are some really good points. Pushing for the distribution of an existing toy with the mold of said toy still intact is something that, if there was a market for it large enough to make a decent profit, would be easy enough to accomplish. It's a tangible goal that people can galvanize behind. But some of the things being suggested here? Quite frankly, there's way too much risk with way too little demand.

With global franchises like Star Wars, Marvel, etc etc etc, there's a wider variety of directions possible from a creative standpoint. Marvel literally has hundreds of characters and hundreds, if not thousands of stories to draw from. With Star Wars, the sky is literally the limit in terms of creative directions the franchise can take. But JP? It's a franchise with a much smaller well of stories and characters it can draw from, and its scope is much smaller than something like Star Wars. There's only so much you can really do with it before people start perceiving it as a franchise "going off the rails", as it kind of is right now. At the same time, it also can't repeat itself over and over again, as people will simply get bored of it. I saw a pretty funny tweet a while back that went something like this....

"What are you watching?"

"Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom"

"Doesn't the same thing happen in every one of these films? The dinosaurs escape..."

"Yeah, but they escape differently this time"


I will say this- Regardless of what anyone thought of Fallen Kingdom, it sets up the franchise in a way that potentially sets up quite a few new and interesting narratives that otherwise wouldn't have been possible. Whether or not they're utilized to their fullest extent obviously remains to be seen, but it's at least something.

Regardless of everything, I imagine that if JW and in particular FK had been received better, this conversation likely isn't happening.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Wed 17 Oct 2018 - 11:47

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@TyrannosaurTJ wrote:
The thing I've come to realize that sometimes you have to be the one to start the movement and the wave needed for the change. That's true in the real world too. Please don't piss over the Legacy Spino thing, I may not have organized it, but I have been calling for it for a while and unable to lead the charge because of my health. If you started a petition to call for an expansion of the series I'd sign. I'd love to see JP grow. I'd love to see what we get with Sorna. That's never been an issue of debate for me. JP should be bigger than it is, but Spielberg has been obstructing that since the inception because he's a film director/producer and not a franchise director/producer. Trevorrow can change that, but the danger is getting into the trap George Lucas is forever stuck in.

This new movie really made me sour on him via his writing. I've come to the conclusion that the DPG site was really a cheap band-aid for most of the plot holes I saw in the movie. Sorry, but having a movie lean on a site to explain away the plot holes doesn't make it a good movie. The only plot hole it didn't cover was how the dinosaurs that escaped in the USA wouldn't get wiped out by the National Guard/SWAT within 1-3 months. Good luck trying to BS out of that one. It just feels that he has no idea what he's doing. While I defended him after KK fired him, I've come to the conclusion he she was justified in doing so, but she did it for the wrong reasons and handled it poorly. This franchise needs a far more experienced director. One who understands that this franchise was rooted in brains and common sense, not this bombastic crap from JP3 to today. JW has some of that, but it was too dumbed down for it's good.

That's fine for you to say, but taking a shit on an entirely different issue/petition I just fail to see how that would directly help your mission and end goal. Yeah, you can be disappointed, but lashing out like that? You're basically doing an equivalent of character assassination for yourself or a self-inflicted gun shot wound where you shoot yourself in the foot or even your testicles here.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Wed 17 Oct 2018 - 15:45

@Tyrant Lizard wrote:
@JVM wrote:
The Spinosaurus toy is an existing product that requires only manufacturing and distribution; it is not a demand for an entirely new product with new production costs, as would come from an animated series, which would cost millions of dollars merely to produce with no guarantee it would reach what an industry executive would qualify as a financial success. Not to mention, the existence of the tie-in websites is entirely separate from any potential demand for an animated series, and both would likely exist in any case. It's also pretty well-known Spielberg is the one who axed the animated series.

It's important to keep in mind that in the public eye, Jurassic Park is still mostly one beloved film and some red-headed stepchildren, and a single film isn't enough to sustain a global franchise -- for most iconic franchises, the real reach and brand came after one major sequel proved successful in its own right. Universal Pictures waited for Jurassic Park 3 to try to market the franchise as a global brand and shot itself in the foot, and then left it on hiatus in anticipation of another successful sequel, and played it safe (imo) by waiting for Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom to push that hard again.

I'm disappointed that Universal didn't try harder in the hiatus period, and that a JP4 didn't materialize sooner, but I think the idea it's because fans aren't making enough petitions is silly.

These are some really good points. Pushing for the distribution of an existing toy with the mold of said toy still intact is something that, if there was a market for it large enough to make a decent profit, would be easy enough to accomplish. It's a tangible goal that people can galvanize behind. But some of the things being suggested here? Quite frankly, there's way too much risk with way too little demand.

With global franchises like Star Wars, Marvel, etc etc etc, there's a wider variety of directions possible from a creative standpoint. Marvel literally has hundreds of characters and hundreds, if not thousands of stories to draw from. With Star Wars, the sky is literally the limit in terms of creative directions the franchise can take. But JP? It's a franchise with a much smaller well of stories and characters it can draw from, and its scope is much smaller than something like Star Wars. There's only so much you can really do with it before people start perceiving it as a franchise "going off the rails", as it kind of is right now. At the same time, it also can't repeat itself over and over again, as people will simply get bored of it. I saw a pretty funny tweet a while back that went something like this....

"What are you watching?"

"Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom"

"Doesn't the same thing happen in every one of these films? The dinosaurs escape..."

"Yeah, but they escape differently this time"


I will say this- Regardless of what anyone thought of Fallen Kingdom, it sets up the franchise in a way that potentially sets up quite a few new and interesting narratives that otherwise wouldn't have been possible. Whether or not they're utilized to their fullest extent obviously remains to be seen, but it's at least something.

Regardless of everything, I imagine that if JW and in particular FK had been received better, this conversation likely isn't happening.

I actually think that if Spielberg wasn't so paranoid and if Universal got more experienced directors and producers who got the franchise better then Trevorrow, then I think the franchise would grow in a way that would expand the franchise yet keep the common sense and intelligence the first 2 movies had. Fresh blood and ideas that are properly introduced and not ham fisted without any expatiation in the movie (The JP3 Spino and Lockwood), solid canon, proper add-ons (tv shows, books, etc). All of that would happen.


@TyrannosaurTJ wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@TyrannosaurTJ wrote:
The thing I've come to realize that sometimes you have to be the one to start the movement and the wave needed for the change. That's true in the real world too. Please don't piss over the Legacy Spino thing, I may not have organized it, but I have been calling for it for a while and unable to lead the charge because of my health. If you started a petition to call for an expansion of the series I'd sign. I'd love to see JP grow. I'd love to see what we get with Sorna. That's never been an issue of debate for me. JP should be bigger than it is, but Spielberg has been obstructing that since the inception because he's a film director/producer and not a franchise director/producer. Trevorrow can change that, but the danger is getting into the trap George Lucas is forever stuck in.

This new movie really made me sour on him via his writing. I've come to the conclusion that the DPG site was really a cheap band-aid for most of the plot holes I saw in the movie. Sorry, but having a movie lean on a site to explain away the plot holes doesn't make it a good movie. The only plot hole it didn't cover was how the dinosaurs that escaped in the USA wouldn't get wiped out by the National Guard/SWAT within 1-3 months. Good luck trying to BS out of that one. It just feels that he has no idea what he's doing. While I defended him after KK fired him, I've come to the conclusion he she was justified in doing so, but she did it for the wrong reasons and handled it poorly. This franchise needs a far more experienced director. One who understands that this franchise was rooted in brains and common sense, not this bombastic crap from JP3 to today. JW has some of that, but it was too dumbed down for it's good.

That's fine for you to say, but taking a shit on an entirely different issue/petition I just fail to see how that would directly help your mission and end goal. Yeah, you can be disappointed, but lashing out like that? You're basically doing an equivalent of character assassination for yourself or a self-inflicted gun shot wound where you shoot yourself in the foot or even your testicles here.

I get why you say that, but I wasn't against the Spino toy being more widespread per se as so much as I was amazed that fans would flock to this cause and not the cause this thread is about. As a dinosaur toy collector, I actually get why people want this, but I was just surprised why more fans didn't demand more from this franchise just as much. That's all.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Wed 17 Oct 2018 - 16:47

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
I get why you say that, but I wasn't against the Spino toy being more widespread per se as so much as I was amazed that fans would flock to this cause and not the cause this thread is about. As a dinosaur toy collector, I actually get why people want this, but I was just surprised why more fans didn't demand more from this franchise just as much. That's all.

Simply put, it's a much more tangible goal that would yield more tangible results. It's something specific that can be addressed. What you're proposing is massive, sweeping changes to the direction of the franchise. Even if everyone were on the same page, which they're not, that's still an extremely daunting task.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Thu 18 Oct 2018 - 9:39

Tyrant Lizard is on point here. There's another issue at hand here is that some of these changes people accepting because they like them and/or don't see the problem with them. The Spinosaurus issue, again, is something everybody can immediately see and possibly immediately fix.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Wed 24 Oct 2018 - 3:27

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
I actually think that if Spielberg wasn't so paranoid and if Universal got more experienced directors and producers who got the franchise better then Trevorrow, then I think the franchise would grow in a way that would expand the franchise yet keep the common sense and intelligence the first 2 movies had. Fresh blood and ideas that are properly introduced and not ham fisted without any expatiation in the movie (The JP3 Spino and Lockwood), solid canon, proper add-ons (tv shows, books, etc). All of that would happen.

I really don't think all of these changes are going to happen all at once.

In my reading and media experience, it's experienced directors who are usually far less game to cooperate with expanded universe type of material and want more creative freedom. Most experienced and acclaimed directors are those who jump through wildly different projects, building a brand around their own style while trying to prove a certain amount of versatility with different stories. Very few directors want to become attached long-term to someone else's franchise, and those that do are rarely acclaimed for their work in that capacity. J. J. Abrams has talked for years about wanting to stop doing franchise work and go back to independent films. Christopher McQuarrie does action films but isn't interested in superhero films because he doesn't want to be bound to a canon. Jon Favreau left Marvel over clashes with the Story Group. Guillermo del Toro is notoriously fickle if a project slows down, abandoning The Hobbit and Pacific Rim 2 for other projects. These are the people considered greats in franchise films.

In short, most acclaimed directors would rather work on a project where they have free reign to do as they please than be bound to the rules of a franchise. The directors of the later Halloween films took license to erase previous films on no less than three occasions, leading to a mess of multiple timelines, with each usually having one bold directorial vision and otherwise missteps. Star Trek has split timelines and spin-off material is never considered canonical anyway as you want. The Alien and Predator franchise have similar issues with keeping a comprehensive canon as later directors again, prefer to ignore some of the less convenient material. Sometimes this has been the correct brand move, but often those most focused on delivering a better film right now are those least inclined to form a comprehensive canon, and in this day and age, a lot of studios would have probably sooner erased Jurassic Park III outright than try to re-contextualize it the way Universal has.

I really, honestly admire your level of vision, because I want Jurassic to strive for better and to become the evergreen franchise I want it to be, but you seem to be under an impression that the whole direction of the franchise can suddenly turn in a better and ideal direction with one fell swoop, but building a franchise requires a lot of support and synergy, inside and outside of the corporate structure, and even with that, there will always be inconsistencies and missteps, and the more control exerted here is less freedom there.
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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Sun 11 Nov 2018 - 3:15

Sorry to bring up politics. But this is indeed a lot like politics. Fandoms not just of this franchise but of most major franchises are just like politics.

Everytime there is an issue there is always 2 sides, The ones who are just fine with it and the ones who really dislike it. The problem is, whenever someone from the dislike crowd tries to step forward to make some change, he/she will be quickly confronted by the entire fraction who is fine with the way things are and he/she will be told to that everything is fine just the way it is, that he/she has no power whatsoever, that if he/she does not accept things the way they are then there is something wrong with him/her and just be disimissed in a very cynical way overall.

You just can not expect any significant change that way.

More or less a similar thing is happening with Star Wars. There is the half of the fanbase (maybe more than that) who really hated The Last Jedi and is overall very unhappy with how Disney is running the show. But then there is the other half who feels that the correct way to be a fan is to accept and support whatever is given to them. So whenever the unhappy side of the fanbase becomes loud and tries to protest, the happy side of the fanbase becomes even louder by trying to belittle the unhappy crowd as loudly as possible dismissing them as just inmature fanboys on an irrational rage (even if they do have valid and well thought points).

Maybe the Jurassic fanbase is slightly more respectful and not as agressive as the SW one but still, it is more or less the same pattern and more or less the same behavior from both sides. One side wants change, the other does everything they can to belittle and dismiss the need for a change.

That is just the nature of major fandoms and that is why it is so hard to make a change in major franchises. Or better said, that is why changes in major franchises do not happen very often.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Sun 11 Nov 2018 - 7:24

At this point there's only one film left before the rights go back to the Crichton estate anyways. Might as well see how it plays out.

I imagine that, if Universal does purchase the rights back from the Crichton estate, there will be some pretty significant changes coming regardless, as the World trilogy will be finished.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Sun 11 Nov 2018 - 10:25

@JVM wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
I actually think that if Spielberg wasn't so paranoid and if Universal got more experienced directors and producers who got the franchise better then Trevorrow, then I think the franchise would grow in a way that would expand the franchise yet keep the common sense and intelligence the first 2 movies had. Fresh blood and ideas that are properly introduced and not ham fisted without any expatiation in the movie (The JP3 Spino and Lockwood), solid canon, proper add-ons (tv shows, books, etc). All of that would happen.

I really don't think all of these changes are going to happen all at once.

In my reading and media experience, it's experienced directors who are usually far less game to cooperate with expanded universe type of material and want more creative freedom. Most experienced and acclaimed directors are those who jump through wildly different projects, building a brand around their own style while trying to prove a certain amount of versatility with different stories. Very few directors want to become attached long-term to someone else's franchise, and those that do are rarely acclaimed for their work in that capacity. J. J. Abrams has talked for years about wanting to stop doing franchise work and go back to independent films. Christopher McQuarrie does action films but isn't interested in superhero films because he doesn't want to be bound to a canon. Jon Favreau left Marvel over clashes with the Story Group. Guillermo del Toro is notoriously fickle if a project slows down, abandoning The Hobbit and Pacific Rim 2 for other projects. These are the people considered greats in franchise films.

In short, most acclaimed directors would rather work on a project where they have free reign to do as they please than be bound to the rules of a franchise. The directors of the later Halloween films took license to erase previous films on no less than three occasions, leading to a mess of multiple timelines, with each usually having one bold directorial vision and otherwise missteps. Star Trek has split timelines and spin-off material is never considered canonical anyway as you want. The Alien and Predator franchise have similar issues with keeping a comprehensive canon as later directors again, prefer to ignore some of the less convenient material. Sometimes this has been the correct brand move, but often those most focused on delivering a better film right now are those least inclined to form a comprehensive canon, and in this day and age, a lot of studios would have probably sooner erased Jurassic Park III outright than try to re-contextualize it the way Universal has.

I really, honestly admire your level of vision, because I want Jurassic to strive for better and to become the evergreen franchise I want it to be, but you seem to be under an impression that the whole direction of the franchise can suddenly turn in a better and ideal direction with one fell swoop, but building a franchise requires a lot of support and synergy, inside and outside of the corporate structure, and even with that, there will always be inconsistencies and missteps, and the more control exerted here is less freedom there.

Here's the thing, sometimes, you need a radical change in direction, as long as you're being respectful of the franchise. I.E. No Rian Johnson's or Roland Emmerich's (Zillla '98). Look at how the director of Star Wars: Wrath Of Khan saved Star Trek or how James Cameron made Aliens.

I'm also not against basic changes, but I'm against changes that don't make sense or those that radically change the direction for the worse.


@Tyrant Lizard wrote:
At this point there's only one film left before the rights go back to the Crichton estate anyways. Might as well see how it plays out.

I imagine that, if Universal does purchase the rights back from the Crichton estate, there will be some pretty significant changes coming regardless, as the World trilogy will be finished.

Hopefully, it takes the franchise in a more realistic common sense direction that the first 2 movies had and not this bombastic F&F style it's taken so far. I just wonder how long the time gap will be before the next movie comes and if the reaction to JP6/JW3 will play a part of it.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Sun 11 Nov 2018 - 13:52

No, probably not larger...it isn't exactly small. But I think it should have gone in a different direction that depending on how it was received might have made it bigger.....or smaller. Also being more faithful to the first two movies AT THE TIME this trilogy was started would not have been a radical shift in ideology. So I am not quite sure where that point of contention is coming from. Admittedly I only quickly skimmed the last page or so though.


Also, I don't think it will be a long turnaround at all regardless of outcome of JW3. Universal needs franchises as a crutch until it can develop alternative franchises. Part of the reason F&F has gone on to 10 movies despite a humongous shift in ideology from the first movie in its series. This is obviously under the assumption that Crichton's widow will license the franchise back to Universal and Spielberg.
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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Mon 12 Nov 2018 - 16:26

@Scott B wrote:
No, probably not larger...it isn't exactly small. But I think it should have gone in a different direction that depending on how it was received might have made it bigger.....or smaller. Also being more faithful to the first two movies AT THE TIME this trilogy was started would not have been a radical shift in ideology. So I am not quite sure where that point of contention is coming from. Admittedly I only quickly skimmed the last page or so though.


Also, I don't think it will be a long turnaround at all regardless of outcome of JW3. Universal needs franchises as a crutch until it can develop alternative franchises. Part of the reason F&F has gone on to 10 movies despite a humongous shift in ideology from the first movie in its series. This is obviously under the assumption that Crichton's widow will license the franchise back to Universal and Spielberg.

My point is that this franchise should be much large then it is while still maintaining the realism that the first two movies had.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Tue 13 Nov 2018 - 1:19

Oh and I think fans having no power should not even be a question.

We live in the era of the internet and social media.

Where just one tweet can start or end the career of an artist, where just one Facebook post can make or break a politician and where just one viral video can make someone worldwide famous or infamous.

And while I do not support using the internet to harm anyone, it is a fact that it does give the fans a lot of power to make a change in a franchise.

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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Tue 13 Nov 2018 - 15:28

Again, I don't think it can be much larger than it is right now purely from a popularity and profit standpoint. With inflation it still competes with the other large franchises around. To expect it to be a top 3 all-time franchise is unrealistic but it seems to be Top 10. That said, it should have stayed close to its roots while being this big, sure. JP isn't a friendly expanded media franchise. Meaning it is hard to branch this into television, books and video games while making it meaningful to the film series they would be based on.

It can surely be more realistic but not sure it can get larger.
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PostSubject: Re: Shouldn't this franchise be larger then it currently is right now?   Tue 13 Nov 2018 - 15:46

@Scott B wrote:
Again, I don't think it can be much larger than it is right now purely from a popularity and profit standpoint. With inflation it still competes with the other large franchises around. To expect it to be a top 3 all-time franchise is unrealistic but it seems to be Top 10. That said, it should have stayed close to its roots while being this big, sure. JP isn't a friendly expanded media franchise. Meaning it is hard to branch this into television, books and video games while making it meaningful to the film series they would be based on.

It can surely be more realistic but not sure it can get larger.

But having a cartoon show that takes place in between JP3 and JW isn't that hard to make, let along ask for, right?

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