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 Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is

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Troyal1
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:44 pm

See that’s crazy to me... this is the one JP movie I felt didn’t feel like a JP movie. I understand that is my opinion, and my opinion alone. But I really think that’s where the divide is coming in on this one. JW to some extent felt very different but I still felt I was watching JP. Mostly anyway. I think JW and FK make a critical mistake of going way too fast, showing too much. I liked the slower pace of the OG movie and TLW, even JP3 has a few scenes where they kind of walk around and appreciate the scenery while they talk. The real dinosaurs seem to take such a backseat to the hybrids. I really don’t think FK needed Indoraptor, I just don’t.


Edit: besides the effects and cinematography anyway. FK is way ahead in that regard.


Last edited by Troyal1 on Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:50 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:46 pm

Damn, it's crazy how opinions can differ. And I actually love that: after all, who doesn't love a good conversation with differing opinions? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:49 pm

@Dv-218 wrote:
Damn, it's crazy how opinions can differ. And I actually love that: after all, who doesn't love a good conversation with differing opinions? Smile
thsnks man no problem. Very Happy

I actually edited my post with a bit more detail
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:57 pm

^haha no prob Very Happy
The pacing is actually one of the things that I did have an issue with- I really wish they would have expanded on the characters and spent more time on the island before it burns (not only to give the reveal about wheatley a little more buildup time but also because Bayona's nublar is so damn beautiful).
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:58 pm

@Troyal1 wrote:
See that’s crazy to me... this is the one JP movie I felt didn’t feel like a JP movie. I understand that is my opinion, and my opinion alone. But I really think that’s where the divide is coming in on this one. JW to some extent felt very different but I still felt I was watching JP. Mostly anyway. I think JW and FK make a critical mistake of going way too fast, showing too much. I liked the slower pace of the OG movie and TLW, even JP3 has a few scenes where they kind of walk around and appreciate the scenery while they talk. The real dinosaurs seem to take such a backseat to the hybrids. I really don’t think FK needed Indoraptor, I just don’t.


Edit: besides the effects and cinematography anyway. FK is way ahead in that regard.

It's great that you mentioned this, and this is exactly what I meant when I said in an earlier post that even JP3 took its time showing us the island. I miss that, because it's part of what made me love the old movies so much. I was 14 years old back when they released "Trespasser" back in 1997, a game that let you explore Isla Sorna in great detail, the TLW game for PS1 did the same, and it's part of what made me fall in love with Jurassic Park so much. I loved the islands and everyhing about them, I absorbed every detail, and while JW did show us Nublar, it just didn't feel the same at all. Everything was so fast-paced, I didn't get a chance to get that old JP feeling.
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:00 pm

^^ Wasn't the Brachiosaur scene in FK about as long as the herd-fly over in JP3? Remember the Spino attacked almost immediately after they landed.
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:06 pm

@Robotpo wrote:
^^ Wasn't the Brachiosaur scene in FK about as long as the herd-fly over in JP3? Remember the Spino attacked almost immediately after they landed.

They looked at herbivores from the boat, too, and while it did seem kind of forced, at least it was there, the so-called "awe and wonder". Also, the ending with watching the pteranodons.
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:44 pm

@Lost wrote:
@Robotpo wrote:
^^ Wasn't the Brachiosaur scene in FK about as long as the herd-fly over in JP3? Remember the Spino attacked almost immediately after they landed.

They looked at herbivores from the boat, too, and while it did seem kind of forced, at least it was there, the so-called "awe and wonder". Also, the ending with watching the pteranodons.

First of all thank you, but

I wasn’t even talking about that. There were just some quiet moments in general. Everything from the rex death to the raptor jumping out is devoid of any Dino action. It’s them walking through a jungle talking. Or the quiet scene about billy being over ambitious. JW and FK miss these little scenes where we get to contemplate something. Between the action on screen.

In the original trilogy I always really feel like I’m on a big mysterious island in every second. In these new movies I don’t even feel I’m on a super special dinosaur island, or even Nublar for that matter. I hate the old Visitors center and the Ford Explorer. They both are very poor imitations imo.

I mean I’d argue it’s a sign of the times. Movies are just more fast pace these days but I don’t think it goes particularly well with JP.
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:57 pm

To each his own...I felt FK had its share of quiet character moments.

However - I do agree the VC and the tour jeep didn't match the originals.
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:01 pm

I do think FK had a few nice character moments, but the film goes by so fast that it kinda gets lost in it all. Like the scene between Owen and Claire that was released before the film. On its own, it's a fantastic scene, but within the context of the film it gets kinda lost.

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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:18 am

@Tyrant Lizard wrote:
I do think FK had a few nice character moments, but the film go by so fast that it kinda gets lost in it all. Like the scene between Owen and Claire that was released before the film. On its own, it's a fantastic scene, but within the context of the film it gets kinda lost.

I guess you disagree with Klayton Fioriti on the film's pacing being "incredible". I like his review and love the film but it is way too fast paced.

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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:24 am

Tbh i'm kinda torn on the pacing. I disagree with Klayton that it was incredible, and I really think it junped from point to point way too fast.
But in the other hand, I appreciate when a movie does not drag needlesly. I think that with a more developed script it could have done good even with that pacing.
My main gripe is that the island scenes were way too short, and the reveal about Mills true intentions happened way too quick.
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:26 am

I felt FK way more JP-ish than JW. So it's interesting how opinions can differ, indeed lol

I love this movie but I agree that the pacing in the Nublar part was way too fast.

But for the rest of the film, the pacing is great, especially the scenes in the mansion.

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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:45 am

The funny thing is that one of my issues with the pacing is that it actually took a bit of a dive after the island section when it was setting up the auction. While I do think the Nublar section was way too fast, by the end of it I was kind of used to the rapid fire pacing of that section of the movie, so it kind of felt like a bit of a momentum killer when the film slowed down to set up the auction. It eventually picked up again, but yeah. I would have rather the film picked a pace and stuck to it.

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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:00 am

@Tyrant Lizard wrote:
The funny thing is that one of my issues with the pacing is that it actually took a bit of a dive after the island section when it was setting up the auction. While I do think the Nublar section was way too fast, by the end of it I was kind of used to the rapid fire pacing of that section of the movie, so it kind of felt like a bit of a momentum killer when the film slowed down to set up the auction. It eventually picked up again, but yeah. I would have rather the film picked a pace and stuck to it.

I think it also depends on how captivating a scene is for the viewer, no matter if an action scene or a static scene. For example, I would not consider the scene when Maisie watches the baby Blue footage or the auction sequence as momentum killers, because they were so intriguing to watch that they felt like action sequences to me. If that makes sense.

I mean, many of the most entertaining movies are based on dialogues. And sometimes action scenes can be really boring. It all depends on what you're watching and how it manages to capture your attention.

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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:21 pm

@Troyal1 wrote:
@Lost wrote:
@Robotpo wrote:
^^ Wasn't the Brachiosaur scene in FK about as long as the herd-fly over in JP3? Remember the Spino attacked almost immediately after they landed.

They looked at herbivores from the boat, too, and while it did seem kind of forced, at least it was there, the so-called "awe and wonder". Also, the ending with watching the pteranodons.

First of all thank you, but

I wasn’t even talking about that. There were just some quiet moments in general. Everything from the rex death to the raptor jumping out is devoid of any Dino action. It’s them walking through a jungle talking. Or the quiet scene about billy being over ambitious. JW and FK miss these little scenes where we get to contemplate something. Between the action on screen.

In the original trilogy I always really feel like I’m on a big mysterious island in every second. In these new movies I don’t even feel I’m on a super special dinosaur island, or even Nublar for that matter. I hate the old Visitors center and the Ford Explorer. They both are very poor imitations imo.

I mean I’d argue it’s a sign of the times. Movies are just more fast pace these days but I don’t think it goes particularly well with JP.

Is this directed at me? I'm going to assume it is. I was talking about the same thing, those quiet moments, taking in the scenery etc., which I loved about the old movies. I talk about it a few posts up. The post you quoted was directed at Robotpo, because he said the fly-over scene in JP3 was short and i said there's more than just that scene.
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:33 pm

Here's a laugh. Its nit picky but I still find it funny.


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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:48 pm

Lol that was pretty funny actually. Especially the bit about the trailers hahahahahaha XD
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:28 pm

I agree with the above posts that FK had some pacing issues.
I mean, I guess it depends on what you want in a Jurassic movie. FK is kind of a nonstop action flick with one or two quiet moments thrown in to give us a breather once in a while. But if you were looking for a more character driven story, this isn't the one for you I guess.
Personally, I'm fine with it. The action was so much fun that I didn't really mind that character development took a back seat to the action.

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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:30 pm

IMO FK is downright glacial compared to a lot of movies these days (see JJ Abrams/Transformers/Fast & Furious). I thought it had a nice old-school Amblin quality to it.
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:33 pm

I think it had a super fast pacing in the first half (opening sequence excluded), but in the second half the pacing was perfect. It had a very nice build-up of tension, especially from the moment the Indoraptor gets released.

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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:03 pm

^^ Yes, the scenes on the island are a roller-coaster as intended. However, we spend as much time on the mainland before the island as in JP and TLW (around 20 minutes).
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:43 pm

@Spiegel wrote:
Here's a laugh. Its nit picky but I still find it funny.


Lol I love these pitch meetings and this one was hilarious. He somehow managed to make fun of almost every single criticism I've seen about FK.
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:30 pm

New article - Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom is the Last Jedi of Jurassic Park movies

https://www.gamesradar.com/jurassic-world-fallen-kingdom-is-the-last-jedi-of-jurassic-park-movies/
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:07 am

Lmao is it weird that I love Fallen Kingdom but I can't stand a few minutes of TLJ? Very Happy
Because all I see is those 2 movies compared because of how they break the usual formula and explore new places..

EDIT: at least FK didn't open with a "yo mama" prank call lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:31 am

Even though I was never that into Fallen Kingdom, and I thought it would get a minor backlash, I was hesitant to call it "The Last Jedi of the Jurassic series" because that's like the lowest of the low, The Last Jedi regins supreme as the ultimate ruins what came before/plot holes/things that make no sense/made fans lose interest in a famous franchise movie.

But after reading soooo many internet reviews (like that article), and watching sooo many youtube critics (Like that pitch video).... I kinda have to agree that Fallen Kingdom is not too far away from The Last Jedi in that sense.

And even though both Jurassic Park 3 and Jurassic World also had some ruins what came before/plot holes/ things that made no sense moments (and got hate for them)... The fact is that this one did more of those and thus the response was louder and that's why more and more often we see both critics and the casual fans calling it "Worse than JP3".
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:38 am

@Dv-218 wrote:
Lmao is it weird that I love Fallen Kingdom but I can't stand a few minutes of TLJ? Very Happy

It's not weird, I'm the same! I hated TLJ but love FK. I don't think it's a case of if you like one you will like the other.
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:24 am

Lol I agree. It's just that I have seen plenty of sites compare the two movies because they both caused so much division (and I can definitly see why), like #TRexSpinorematch pointed out. I think that aside from the movie's more obvious flaws, the mainland setting and cloned humans might be a big factor (from what I have seen)

But in general, my opinion on FK is like the polar opposite of my opinion on TLJ.
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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:45 am

Another significant factor that might have led to how the movie turned out to be how it was is that now we know for a fact that neither director JA Bayona nor writer Derek Connolly were really Jurassic Park fans.

They might be good people with the best intentions, but the fact remains that Bayona seems to struggle to answer easy questions about the original film and Derek straight up said he had not seen any of the Jurassic films before writing Jurassic World.

And now that we are on the topic of The Last Jedi... Remember Mark Hamill's quote before TLJ...

"It dosen't matter if it is of high quality...Only if it makes money".

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PostSubject: Re: Analyzing the why behind the backlash of Fallen Kingdom and how valid it is   Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:47 am

Let’s move back on topic then shall we.

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