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  Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?

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Rhedosaurus
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PostSubject: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 22, 2020 8:10 pm

Ever since the Spino skeleton debacle, which I still think was a case of Universal trying to pull a fast one on the fan base, it has felt like the JW trilogy has been playing catch-up with things we should have got some time ago.

1. The continuity between the JP and JW trilogy: This was always weak, and the fact that, until JW:FK had Lockwood mentioned Sorna by name, we've had to relay one the sites as the main way to do so (When NO other franchise is so dependent on such.) is proof of that. Yes, it seems that we'll finally be getting answers and better continuity within the JW:D, but shouldn't we have had answers to Sorna's fate from the get go with the first JW? You wouldn't have had to done much work either.

Claire: The Sorna population got wiped out.

Owen: How? The military was supposed to be protecting them.

Claire: And then North Korea got atomic weapons and the frigates guarding Sorna were sent to safeguard South Korea. We tried to prevent the hunting, but the poachers had been preparing for this for a long time and we were far outgunned. We moved the survivors here to Nublar were we could protect them.

I just put in more explanation into what happened to Sorna then Uni/Trevorrow ever did in the movies and it did so without much time or difficulty. Yet again, it's only NOW that we'll be getting answers via the next movie? Also, if Universal/Colin didn't want to keep the Sorna movies as canon, then why didn't they just simply say so when the first JW was about to come out?


2. The portrayal of the dinosaurs themselves: This is a combination of two things: How they are portrayed and how accurate they are. I'm going to touch on the accuracy first with a disclaimer.

For the most part, I'm good with keeping most of the dinosaurs with their original designs. The expection are the Gallimimus since nobody cares if it's feathered or not, and the Spinosaurus. I still say that within the movie (No, don't point to those sites that nobody else goes to.) it should be ret-conned as a T. rex/Spino hybrid and was the basis for the I. rex and that we can finally get the 'TRUE' Spinosaurus, which looks like a cross between Dimetodon and a Far Eastern dragon. (The JP3 Spino was always based on iffy science. It was based on 2 smaller relatives, possibly just one considering how Suchomimius could conceivably be a larger African spieces of Baryonyx.)

That being said, at the same time, I do think that the new dinosaurs should have been more accurate and that some should have been feathered. Use the gradual approach.

JW: The first bird Archaeopterx (with Harpy Eagle DNA), Theriznosaurus, and the new Gallimimus being feathered.

JW:FK: The tyrannosaur Teterphous being feathered and actually having a scene (We got a shot of one's corpse via a deleted scene, but that doesn't really count.), Blue having a feathered sterlie brother, and Deinochirus, which was basically the larger brother of Gallimimus.

JW:D: Blue finds a fertile male, the real Spinosaurus, and even some newer/more accurate versions of old favs like Triceratops. Even old designs that have color schemes based on the toys would count (The colors of the 2009 Hasbro T. rex and the Canyon Rex come to mind.)


And then it's how the dinosaurs have always been portrayed themselves. CT-1138 said it the best with this post.

@CT-1138 wrote:
This effectively sums up my criticisms of the JW movies. The dinosaurs are portrayed unrealistically. I place the blame for this with JP///. It's the first time in the movies that the animals went from being, "They're not monsters, they're just animals. They just do what they do." to becoming, "theme park monsters, nothing more and nothing less." I may have come to terms with many of the things in JP///, but I will forever hate how it irrevocably changed the perception of dinosaurs in the franchise. Dinosaurs in the JP movies used to represent a chaotic neutral element. They were the wind, or the tornado in Twister; neither evil nor heroic. They simply existed within the course of the story being told. Now they're not animals, they're either super villains or superheroes.

But hey, I point this out and I get told, "Well nothing in Jurassic World is natural. They were never real dinosaurs and they don't have to be portrayed realistically." Or, "It's just a movie."


Again, we should have got some of this from the get go, yet it's only now that we're getting dinosaurs portrayed like animals with a considerable degree of accuracy like in the first two movie did.


3. The return of it being smarter: I remember how it was said that this movie will return to it's roots as a smarter, more sophisticated style movie. Again, shouldn't this have had happened with the first 2 movies? The first movie had some of that, but the last one was just mindlessly bombastically braindead.


What's the point of getting all of this now when it's practically too late, not to mention how it's doing it after JW:FK put a bad taste in the mouths of many people?


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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeSun Aug 23, 2020 1:22 pm

The more I've re-watched the first JW, the more I've come to not like the film at all, and actually think I prefer JP3 (I'll take Grant over Owen and Claire any day of the week). JW also fundamentally misunderstood/ignored Hammond's arc in JP, let along TLW, basically making JW like the "alien egg in the cryo-chamber" opening" of "Alien 3" - not believably canon. While I did like FK, I'm not sure I'd make the argument that's it's a particularly "strong" movie, just that I subjectively enjoyed it.

Having said that - TLW and JP3 completely abandoned Isla Nublar, if you'll recall. The only mention of Nublar's fate was from a deleted scene in TLW, which was only inserted back into the TV version, where Ludlow basically implies InGen went back and killed the entire dinosaur population in-between movies. Not only that, TLW doesn't even mention whatever became of Grant and Ellie! I'm not knocking TLW, but come on - the JP films did the exact same thing.

I agree about JP3 and the JW films going to far into turning the dinosaurs into movie monster characters as opposed to animals. And I agree that JP and TLW, at least, are far smarter that the JW films which have devolved into the typical "action schlock" Spielberg always avoided.

However, JP was never a documentary. It always had horror and monster movie elements. Phil Tippet actually says something in "The Making of Jurassic Park," like, "Even though Steven wasn't presenting the dinosaurs as monsters, he knew that he had a monster movie on his hands." Spielberg constantly refers to "Jurassic Park" as a spiritual sequel to "Jaws" - a monster movie. It's a franchise revolving around scary creatures trying to eat people.

In addition, the dinosaurs were never entirely scientifically accurate to begin with, and the creators took a lot of artistic license, as filmmakers do. The raptors are too big and their intelligence is speculation, there's been a long debate as to whether T-Rex was even an active hunter or more of a scavenger (and its only seeing motion thing was fiction), the Dilophosaurus is too small and its frill and venom are made up, the Compies attacking much larger prey in a swarm is made up as far as I know, and so on. Even by the time they made TLW and JP3, more and more scientists were insisting many dinosaurs had feathers and were probably brightly colored like birds, while the JP team stuck with the more traditional reptilian depictions (even before fanon connected this to being the frog DNA).

I agree that JP and TLW are far superior to the JW films, but the originals did start some of the trends which the JW films exacerbated in their clumsy way.
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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeSun Aug 23, 2020 2:11 pm

Okay, first of all, I think your first mistake is that you believe you are owed an explanation. I am sorry that you do not want to accept the explanation that has been repeatedly offered in media such as the viral sites, or the Evolution of Claire.

The viral sites explicitly mention that Sorna was protected by Masrani/Ingen Security from Poachers. The DPG also lists several species (including species that we saw on Sorna) have gone extinct.

Evolution of Claire also blatantly states that Masrani is using Sorna as a secondary facility, implying they have managed to safely set up some sort of protocols to keep the island safe. EOC takes place 10 years prior to the time the events of JW.

Masrani site states also "Regardless of the reasons, back in 2004 Masrani embraced the responsibility to uphold a means of constant care and attention to the dinosaurs and, with good intentions in mind, he had the surviving animals shipped to Isla Nublar. The second island lies abandoned and restricted even to this day." Emphasis on SURVIVING.

Also, EOC has Wu blatantly state that the animals were genetically altered to be more in line with people's expectations. I can quote the passage for you if you'd like me to. Just do not pretend like the franchise hasn't covered this before.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeSun Aug 23, 2020 4:17 pm

I don't know if Trevorrow fundamentally misunderstood/ignored Hammond's arc in JP & TLW or had it in his mind that Masrani misunderstood Hammond's dying wish. We don't know what Hammond told Masrani as it could have been "Keep the dinosaurs safe and relevant" and to Masrani he was going to keep them safe and relevant by making a new park.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 24, 2020 6:47 am

@Sickle_Claw wrote:
Okay, first of all, I think your first mistake is that you believe you are owed an explanation. I am sorry that you do not want to accept the explanation that has been repeatedly offered in media such as the viral sites, or the Evolution of Claire.

The viral sites explicitly mention that Sorna was protected by Masrani/Ingen Security from Poachers. The DPG also lists several species (including species that we saw on Sorna) have gone extinct.

Evolution of Claire also blatantly states that Masrani is using Sorna as a secondary facility, implying they have managed to safely set up some sort of protocols to keep the island safe. EOC takes place 10 years prior to the time the events of JW.

Masrani site states also "Regardless of the reasons, back in 2004 Masrani embraced the responsibility to uphold a means of constant care and attention to the dinosaurs and, with good intentions in mind, he had the surviving animals shipped to Isla Nublar. The second island lies abandoned and restricted even to this day." Emphasis on SURVIVING.

Because having decent storytelling, solid continuality, and honoring the franchise are SOOOOOOOO much to ask for... Rolling Eyes

I'm not mistaken at all. No other franchise uses viral sites as canon and yet I'm supposed to give the Jurassic Park franchise a pass? Sorry, but even niche franchises like Godzilla don't lean on sites as canon as much as JP does. In fact, most Godzilla fans don't even care about the viral sites that Legendary makes.


I mean seriously. Godzilla, Star Trek, the Thanos Era MCU, Star Wars, and even the chaotic DCEU don't lean on websites for continuality as much, and yet people here are willing to give this one a pass?!

@Robotpo wrote:
There's been a long debate as to whether T-Rex was even an active hunter or more of a scavenger.

Which was solved years ago. Besides, nobody believes that T. rex was a pure scavenger anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 24, 2020 12:10 pm

I agree with all of you on many of your points (except the retcon of the Spino as a Rex Spino hybrid).

But I also have to point out that we have to remember that Colin Trevorrow, writer Dereck Connolly and director J.A. Bayona are not fans of the franchise, they are only casual fans of the first Jurassic Park (and they have been open about it).

Colin has said he was not that into The Lost World and Jurassic Park 3, while Connolly straight up said in an interview that he had not even watched the entire trilogy prior to writing Jurassic World, and back in 2018 I remember posting an interview here in wich Bayona was asked questions about the franchise and he did not even seem to remember the iconic kitchen scene and seemed to not even be aware of what a Spinosaurus was.

So yeah, once you take all of that into account everything begins to make cristal clear sense as to why Jurassic World did sooooooo many things that made me so angry and why my expectations for Fallen Kingdom were very very low. These people may be good people with genuine good intentions. But the fact remains that they are not fans of the franchise in any way. They are only casual fans of the first.

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Link to the T Rex Spinosaurus rematch in Jurassic World 3 petition that Colin Trevorrow noted. We hope everyone joins and help us share it.

https://www.facebook.com/Petition-to-have-a-T-Rex-Spinosaurus-rematch-in-Jurassic-World-2-194141920665797/
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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 24, 2020 1:49 pm

Again dude, your unwillingness to accept what is presented before you does not change things. Cloverfield used viral sites for all three of it's movies. Also Monsterverse has used side media as canon before, with the comics being considered canon (and Mike Dougherty attending the comics panels at conventions!) Skull island viral site is also considered canon too.

Spinorematch...BULL. SHIT. From every interview that I know of, Colin and Bayona seem really thrilled to be a part of this franchise. Bayona regularly posts behind the scenes pictures from Fallen Kingdom on his insta, and I know Colin has been very active in the fandom.


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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 24, 2020 2:54 pm

@Sickle_Claw wrote:
Again dude, your unwillingness to accept what is presented before you does not change things. Cloverfield used viral sites for all three of it's movies. Also Monsterverse has used side media as canon before, with the comics being considered canon (and Mike Dougherty attending the comics panels at conventions!) Skull island viral site is also considered canon too.


My unwillingness?! What about you willing to accept whatever is thrown at you? If anything else, I'm the one trying to keep what made this franchise special and unique. Again, nobody cares about those viral sites. And again, even a lot fans of other franchises don't really care about those viral sites.


Even you yourself said in the "Jurassic Park and Canon" thread that nobody cares about those sites. So by your own standards, if the GA doesn't care, then why should we.


Viral sites are no substitute for decent storytelling.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 24, 2020 3:22 pm

@Sickle_Claw wrote:


Spinorematch...BULL. SHIT. From every interview that I know of, Colin and Bayona seem really thrilled to be a part of this franchise. Bayona regularly posts behind the scenes pictures from Fallen Kingdom on his insta, and I know Colin has been very active in the fandom.


Not "bull shit" at all. You are misunderstanding and misrepresenting what I am saying. I am not saying that Colin or Bayona has not interacted with the fans. Of course they have (me of all people knows that). No one is saying they dislike their jobs either. What I am saying is that they are not longtime hardcore fans of the franchise overall like we are. They only like the first one.

There is a huge difference between not interacting with the fans and only liking the first movie.

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Link to the T Rex Spinosaurus rematch in Jurassic World 3 petition that Colin Trevorrow noted. We hope everyone joins and help us share it.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 24, 2020 5:47 pm

Let's keep things civil here, OK?

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 24, 2020 5:53 pm

#TRexSpinorematch wrote:
I agree with all of you on many of your points (except the retcon of the Spino as a Rex Spino hybrid).

But I also have to point out that we have to remember that Colin Trevorrow, writer Dereck Connolly and director J.A. Bayona are not fans of the franchise, they are only casual fans of the first Jurassic Park (and they have been open about it).

Colin has said he was not that into The Lost World and Jurassic Park 3, while Connolly straight up said in an interview that he had not even watched the entire trilogy prior to writing Jurassic World, and back in 2018 I remember posting an interview here in wich Bayona was asked questions about the franchise and he did not even seem to remember the iconic kitchen scene and seemed to not even be aware of what a Spinosaurus was.

So yeah, once you take all of that into account everything begins to make cristal clear sense as to why Jurassic World did sooooooo many things that made me so angry and why my expectations for Fallen Kingdom were very very low. These people may be good people with genuine good intentions. But the fact remains that they are not fans of the franchise in any way. They are only casual fans of the first.

Your statements are entirely fallacious.

 Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? 4OrvB2g_d
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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 24, 2020 7:06 pm

This is a reminder to keep it civil and to not make it as toxic as previous conversations. This is the only warning.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 24, 2020 9:01 pm

@1morey wrote:
#TRexSpinorematch wrote:
I agree with all of you on many of your points (except the retcon of the Spino as a Rex Spino hybrid).

But I also have to point out that we have to remember that Colin Trevorrow, writer Dereck Connolly and director J.A. Bayona are not fans of the franchise, they are only casual fans of the first Jurassic Park (and they have been open about it).

Colin has said he was not that into The Lost World and Jurassic Park 3, while Connolly straight up said in an interview that he had not even watched the entire trilogy prior to writing Jurassic World, and back in 2018 I remember posting an interview here in wich Bayona was asked questions about the franchise and he did not even seem to remember the iconic kitchen scene and seemed to not even be aware of what a Spinosaurus was.

So yeah, once you take all of that into account everything begins to make cristal clear sense as to why Jurassic World did sooooooo many things that made me so angry and why my expectations for Fallen Kingdom were very very low. These people may be good people with genuine good intentions. But the fact remains that they are not fans of the franchise in any way. They are only casual fans of the first.

Your statements are entirely fallacious.

 Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? 4OrvB2g_d

Uh...How exactly are my statements "entirely fallacious" when there is proof that what I am saying is true?

How exactly is what I am saying "entirely fallacious" when I am only repeating what Colin, Derek and Bayona have said before?

Heck, we even had a thread here on this topic. Bayona had an interview in spanish and they asked him many easy to answer questions about the franchise. He did not seem to remember how many raptors were in the very famous kitchen scene of the first one and he did not seem to even be aware of what a Spinosaurus was. So what conclusions can you draw from that? Bayona is not a hardcore fan of this franchise at all.

Then on that very same thread I posted the interview in wich writer Dereck Connolly straight up says he had not even seen the trilogy before writing Jurassic World. What conclusion can you draw from that? Connolly is not a hardcore fan of the franchise.

https://www.jurassicmainframe.com/t1442-how-big-of-a-fan-of-the-franchise-are-the-directors-writers-and-producers-of-jurassic-world-and-jurassic-world-fallen-kingdom

That goes to show that what I am saying is indeed truthful, correct, and there is plenty of evidence of it. Bayona nor Connolly are hardcore fans of the franchise. They only casually liked the first. Seriously, I hate how the internet is the only place where you can be saying the truth, show proof that you are saying the truth and still get emphatically called "entierly fallacious".

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Link to the T Rex Spinosaurus rematch in Jurassic World 3 petition that Colin Trevorrow noted. We hope everyone joins and help us share it.

https://www.facebook.com/Petition-to-have-a-T-Rex-Spinosaurus-rematch-in-Jurassic-World-2-194141920665797/
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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 25, 2020 2:59 am

If anyone honestly thinks Star Wars does not use supplementary material to back it's canon then you are very mistaken. Literally every major plot point in Rise of Skywalker that was not explained in the movie was explained in a comic or novelisation. 90% of Star Wars best moments in the last 6 years have come from supplementary material.

I Honestly find the viral sites an exciting and modernised way of expanding canon outside of the cliche media. Gone are the days are of true wholesome canon. scrawling through the website for anything I can find was a hell of a lot of fun.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 25, 2020 3:24 am

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Sickle_Claw wrote:
Again dude, your unwillingness to accept what is presented before you does not change things. Cloverfield used viral sites for all three of it's movies. Also Monsterverse has used side media as canon before, with the comics being considered canon (and Mike Dougherty attending the comics panels at conventions!) Skull island viral site is also considered canon too.


My unwillingness?! What about you willing to accept whatever is thrown at you? If anything else, I'm the one trying to keep what made this franchise special and unique. Again, nobody cares about those viral sites. And again, even a lot fans of other franchises don't really care about those viral sites.


Even you yourself said in the "Jurassic Park and Canon" thread that nobody cares about those sites. So by your own standards, if the GA doesn't care, then why should we.


Viral sites are no substitute for decent storytelling.

Because they're written by fans for fans and the JW films might not have great storytelling but critics even said that about JP!

Find a review praising JP for the story and characters. It was prasised for CGI effects and being nothing more than a blockbuster. We fans see it differently.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 25, 2020 7:56 am

@TRK wrote:
I Honestly find the viral sites an exciting and modernised way of expanding canon outside of the cliche media. Gone are the days are of true wholesome canon. scrawling through the website for anything I can find was a hell of a lot of fun.


And how many movie buffs, sci-fi fans, and Star Wars fans even read those sites? I guarantee you that even people who read those sites still wanted an in-movie explanation or some form.


Here's something else. How are we going to get new fans from other franchise to be fans of this one when they see most of the fans here not caring about things like canon/continuality the way most other fanbases do?

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 25, 2020 2:07 pm

@Dr. Wu wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Sickle_Claw wrote:
Again dude, your unwillingness to accept what is presented before you does not change things. Cloverfield used viral sites for all three of it's movies. Also Monsterverse has used side media as canon before, with the comics being considered canon (and Mike Dougherty attending the comics panels at conventions!) Skull island viral site is also considered canon too.


My unwillingness?! What about you willing to accept whatever is thrown at you? If anything else, I'm the one trying to keep what made this franchise special and unique. Again, nobody cares about those viral sites. And again, even a lot fans of other franchises don't really care about those viral sites.


Even you yourself said in the "Jurassic Park and Canon" thread that nobody cares about those sites. So by your own standards, if the GA doesn't care, then why should we.


Viral sites are no substitute for decent storytelling.

Because they're written by fans for fans and the JW films might not have great storytelling but critics even said that about JP!

Find a review praising JP for the story and characters. It was prasised for CGI effects and being nothing more than a blockbuster. We fans see it differently.

I however have to point out that Rhedo has a valid point... Maybe at first the original Jurassic Park did not have super great reviews but over time it became considered not only one of the best films of that decade but also one of the best films in film history and it is now praised as one of the most inteligent and well thought films in film history.

No such things can be said about Jurassic World. At first there was plenty of hype for it but once it premiered the recepction was very very mixed to the point where there is no general consensus. Some hardcore fans and people in the general public like it and see it as a fun popcorn flick while others in both the hardcore fanbase and general public really really hate it for diverse reasons. Many in the general public see it as "dumb" while others in the hardcore fanbase hated many things it did or did not do. Some diliked the whole hybrids focus, others hated how unrealistic and unsatisfying that final fight was and so on...

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 26, 2020 10:58 am

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Sickle_Claw wrote:
Again dude, your unwillingness to accept what is presented before you does not change things. Cloverfield used viral sites for all three of it's movies. Also Monsterverse has used side media as canon before, with the comics being considered canon (and Mike Dougherty attending the comics panels at conventions!) Skull island viral site is also considered canon too.


My unwillingness?! What about you willing to accept whatever is thrown at you? If anything else, I'm the one trying to keep what made this franchise special and unique. Again, nobody cares about those viral sites. And again, even a lot fans of other franchises don't really care about those viral sites.


Even you yourself said in the "Jurassic Park and Canon" thread that nobody cares about those sites. So by your own standards, if the GA doesn't care, then why should we.


Viral sites are no substitute for decent storytelling.

Just because you think nobody else cares about those viral sites doesn't make it true. 

Again, this thread WILL be locked if the conversation does not remain civil. Multiple staff have made warnings. The thread I made a few months back about topics becoming toxic was not made for my own health.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 26, 2020 12:55 pm

@Dead2009 wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Sickle_Claw wrote:
Again dude, your unwillingness to accept what is presented before you does not change things. Cloverfield used viral sites for all three of it's movies. Also Monsterverse has used side media as canon before, with the comics being considered canon (and Mike Dougherty attending the comics panels at conventions!) Skull island viral site is also considered canon too.


My unwillingness?! What about you willing to accept whatever is thrown at you? If anything else, I'm the one trying to keep what made this franchise special and unique. Again, nobody cares about those viral sites. And again, even a lot fans of other franchises don't really care about those viral sites.


Even you yourself said in the "Jurassic Park and Canon" thread that nobody cares about those sites. So by your own standards, if the GA doesn't care, then why should we.


Viral sites are no substitute for decent storytelling.

Just because you think nobody else cares about those viral sites doesn't make it true. 

Again, this thread WILL be locked if the conversation does not remain civil. Multiple staff have made warnings. The thread I made a few months back about topics becoming toxic was not made for my own health.

It's based on what I see in other fanbases and movie groups. And I can tell you that a majority of fans don't consider them canon. Oh sure, they think it's interesting and fun, just not canon.

And sorry about the second post in this thread. I just got a bit frustrated, that's all.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 26, 2020 1:15 pm

I've just read this topic and I'm forced to agree with a lot of what Rhedosaurus and TRexSpinorematch respectively wrote here.

It's pretty disheartening to see that while some fans do a lot of research in order to build a coherent world for their fanprojects, the people in charge of the franchise no longer care about consistency (as it can be seen with Fallen Kingdom's many inconsistencies and errors in terms of geography, dinosaur designs and even logic) or even sweep away large portions of lore like Sorna's and its dinosaurs' fate just to serve the new films.
Like it was written above, one of the new trilogy issues is that some key background elements are only explained in the websites.  A film must have every element needed to understand the story and the universe while a website must only be used as a bonus, to deal about some matters in depth with information that are considered to be superfluous for the film but that a viewer can still read if he/she is curious. It's not up to the viewer to "do his/her homework" by consulting the websites before seeing a film!
While the JW series used mostly viral websites which luckily are free, the recent Star Wars trilogy relied on tie-in novels and comics to explain key background elements like the political context of the galaxy post Return of the Jedi, which is way more problematic than simple viral websites as it forces fans and filmgoers to spend additional money to get informations that should have been in the films. This DLC-like policy in films must end.

While it's true that a lot of people don't care about backstory or world-building, and it's really a shame, it's not a reason for studios to dumb-down films and fans and movie-goers must stand against this tendency and not accepting without batting an eye everything that is supposed to be canon. I truly think that in order to be believable, memorable and be something more than  just mere entertainment, works of fiction must have solid fondations, fondations that are made of qualitative backstory, world-building and story-telling . Sadly,  JW and JW:FK content themselves of delivering the strict minimum and are thus just popcorn flair IMO. As they are sequels to Jurassic Park, a classic in film history, people are right to be frustrated by their shortcomings and lack of ambition.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 27, 2020 2:17 am

The Lost World is a beloved film in the franchise by fans but critics don't like it at all because of shortcomings and lack of ambition.

Why doesn't the JW trilogy have the same fan love that TLW had though both share similar issues?
Even JP3 has slowly got more love from fans over the years yet JW trilogy is just criticized.

The viral sites are not meant to heavily connect with the films but to give fans a deeper insight on current and past events. That's it.

FK alludes to Sorna having no more dinosaurs with the news segment at the start states the Mt. Sibo would kill the last remaining dinosaurs meaning Sorna has none left at least that's the belief. Sorna itself is acknowledge to prove that the JW films are not reboots but sequels to TLW and JP3.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 27, 2020 7:52 am

@Dr. Wu wrote:
Why doesn't the JW trilogy have the same fan love that TLW had though both share similar issues?
Even JP3 has slowly got more love from fans over the years yet JW trilogy is just criticized.

The viral sites are not meant to heavily connect with the films but to give fans a deeper insight on current and past events. That's it.

FK alludes to Sorna having no more dinosaurs with the news segment at the start states the Mt. Sibo would kill the last remaining dinosaurs meaning Sorna has none left at least that's the belief. Sorna itself is acknowledge to prove that the JW films are not reboots but sequels to TLW and JP3.


JP3 is still largely hated. The main reason why the JW trilogy is hated is mainly due to its more dumbed-down bombastic tone. Also, if what you say is true, then why didn't hear about the Sorna population at the Congressional hearing part when the movie was beginning?


Again, fans shouldn't go to sites to "do their homework" before or after seeing a movie.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 27, 2020 10:10 am

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Dr. Wu wrote:
Why doesn't the JW trilogy have the same fan love that TLW had though both share similar issues?
Even JP3 has slowly got more love from fans over the years yet JW trilogy is just criticized.

The viral sites are not meant to heavily connect with the films but to give fans a deeper insight on current and past events. That's it.

FK alludes to Sorna having no more dinosaurs with the news segment at the start states the Mt. Sibo would kill the last remaining dinosaurs meaning Sorna has none left at least that's the belief. Sorna itself is acknowledge to prove that the JW films are not reboots but sequels to TLW and JP3.


JP3 is still largely hated. The main reason why the JW trilogy is hated is mainly due to its more dumbed-down bombastic tone. Also, if what you say is true, then why didn't hear about Mt. Sibo wiping out the Sorna population at the Congressional hearing part when the movie was beginning?


Again, fans shouldn't go to sites to "do their homework" before or after seeing a movie.

Mt. Sibo is not on Sorna.

But Sorna's surviving dinosaurs were removed and transported to Nublar to stock Jurassic World.

Emptying Isla Sorna and destroying Nublar was necessary to move away from the islands and finish the subplot that went unfinished in the novels.
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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 27, 2020 12:54 pm

@1morey wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Dr. Wu wrote:
Why doesn't the JW trilogy have the same fan love that TLW had though both share similar issues?
Even JP3 has slowly got more love from fans over the years yet JW trilogy is just criticized.

The viral sites are not meant to heavily connect with the films but to give fans a deeper insight on current and past events. That's it.

FK alludes to Sorna having no more dinosaurs with the news segment at the start states the Mt. Sibo would kill the last remaining dinosaurs meaning Sorna has none left at least that's the belief. Sorna itself is acknowledge to prove that the JW films are not reboots but sequels to TLW and JP3.


JP3 is still largely hated. The main reason why the JW trilogy is hated is mainly due to its more dumbed-down bombastic tone. Also, if what you say is true, then why didn't hear about Mt. Sibo wiping out the Sorna population at the Congressional hearing part when the movie was beginning?


Again, fans shouldn't go to sites to "do their homework" before or after seeing a movie.

Mt. Sibo is not on Sorna.

But Sorna's surviving dinosaurs were removed and transported to Nublar to stock Jurassic World.

Emptying Isla Sorna and destroying Nublar was necessary to move away from the islands and finish the subplot that went unfinished in the novels.


Thanks for catching that typo.


As for the remaining Sorna population going to Nublar, doesn't that only cheapen the lore, even more so considering how we never got an in-movie explanation as to what happened to them?

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 27, 2020 4:04 pm

@1morey wrote:

Emptying Isla Sorna and destroying Nublar was necessary to move away from the islands and finish the subplot that went unfinished in the novels.

I think it was possible to both move the story away from the islands and respect what TLW and JP3 had brought, by keeping Sorna (and also maybe the rest of the Five Deaths) as a protected reserve where feral populations of dinosaurs are being studied by scientists (whose work might ending up useful years later with the propagation of deextinction technology around the globe and incidents involving dinosaurs happening here and there). The only issue that this might have created would have been the relevance of the whole Extinction debate present in Fallen Kingdom but Nublar's dinosaurs could still be brought to the mainland for x or y reasons (feeling of responsability from Claire and the other former park employees, InGen wanting to sell them to zoos, aquarias and other entities in order to cope with the economic fallout of Jurassic World's fall...) and the story would still follow FK's outlines.
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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 27, 2020 4:13 pm

@Dr. Wu wrote:
The Lost World is a beloved film in the franchise by fans but critics don't like it at all because of shortcomings and lack of ambition.

Why doesn't the JW trilogy have the same fan love that TLW had though both share similar issues?
Even JP3 has slowly got more love from fans over the years yet JW trilogy is just criticized.

They all have had a different set of issues. In the case of TLW the only issue it had was that it did not have the same awe and wonder factor of the first and that it was not that similar to the book. But those were not that significant issues so the TLW did not recieve any kind of backlash and the general consensus is that while it is not as good as the first, it is still the best sequel in the franchise.

Jurassic Park 3 did recieve significant backlash because of establishing that this new species is way superior and can easily humilliate the already iconic T Rex species. On top of that fans and the general public disliked the fact that the plot seemed too short, simplistic and the Kirbys were unpopular characters. But you are right that over the years it did develop a few fans but they are still a tiny minority within the hardcore fanbase. Overall it is still the most hated film in the franchise by both hardcore fans and the general public.

Jurassic World despite plenty of initial hype and many accepting it as a "fun popcorn flick" there is a huge portion of both the hardcore fanbase that really really hates it for diverse and different reasons. Many thought the concepts it introduced were dumb (The using dinosaurs in war thing), some were just not that into the hybrid mutants thing while others hated that final fight because it felt a little bit too much Jurassic Avengers and did not solve the Rex Spino issue at all and so on...

Fallen Kingdom recieved a negative reception more due to the fact that many in both the general public and hardcore fanbase are feeling like the series is moving more into a super bombastic modern Marvel like summer blockbuster. quite a few people in the general public were confused as to what happened to the other island (Sorna) and many hardcore fans are getting tired of Rexy and Blue portrayed almost as superheroes.

So the issues from The Lost World are different, much less significant, smaller and not quite as diverse as the issues and problems that Jurassic Park 3, Jurassic World or Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom have presented.

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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 27, 2020 4:15 pm

@The Geeky Zoologist wrote:
@1morey wrote:

Emptying Isla Sorna and destroying Nublar was necessary to move away from the islands and finish the subplot that went unfinished in the novels.

I think it was possible to both move the story away from the islands and respect what TLW and JP3 had brought, by keeping Sorna (and also maybe the rest of the Five Deaths) as a protected reserve where feral populations of dinosaurs are being studied by scientists (whose work might ending up useful years later with the propagation of deextinction technology around the globe and incidents involving dinosaurs happening here and there). The only issue that this might have created would have been the relevance of the whole Extinction debate present in Fallen Kingdom but Nublar's dinosaurs could still be brought to the mainland for x or y reasons (feeling of responsability from Claire and the other former park employees, InGen wanting to sell them to zoos, aquarias and other entities in order to cope with the economic fallout of Jurassic World's fall...) and the story would still follow FK's outlines.

I think we can assume InGen is out of the dinosaur business, and possibly out of business altogether (again) after JW, especially as it's owned by Masrani Corp., which has damage control and public image to consider.

In the original novel Crichton blew up Nublar with the Costa Rican military, despite the fact that Costa Rica has no military. They were just being true to the source material, the lunacy of Hammond and Masrani building a park on an island with a "dormant" volcano which wasn't really dormant aside.
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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 27, 2020 4:40 pm

@Robotpo wrote:

I think we can assume InGen is out of the dinosaur business, and possibly out of business altogether (again) after JW, especially as it's owned by Masrani Corp., which has damage control and public image to consider.

But wouldn't it have been better to depict in some way that whole debacle within InGen after the JW incident?

@Robotpo wrote:

In the original novel Crichton blew up Nublar with the Costa Rican military, despite the fact that Costa Rica has no military. They were just being true to the source material, the lunacy of Hammond and Masrani building a park on an island with a "dormant" volcano which wasn't really dormant aside.

I have nothing against the very idea of a volcanic eruption destroying Nublar (or a part of it at least) that mirrors the napalm bombing from the novel and which pushes the story in another direction. It's more with things within the execution itself that I have problems with.
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^^ They could have explored post-JW InGen in an interesting way, however, that might have felt was too similar to TLW which was basically about Ludlow "saving" the company. I also got the impression that InGen wasn't really any longer an autonomous entity, (Hoskins being the exception), and that it was pretty much just a branch of Masrani who wanted its paleo-cloning technology (that being my interpretation obviously).
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PostSubject: Re: Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now?    Is anybody else frustrated that it's only now that we're getting all things now? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 27, 2020 7:43 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Dr. Wu wrote:
Why doesn't the JW trilogy have the same fan love that TLW had though both share similar issues?
Even JP3 has slowly got more love from fans over the years yet JW trilogy is just criticized.

The viral sites are not meant to heavily connect with the films but to give fans a deeper insight on current and past events. That's it.

FK alludes to Sorna having no more dinosaurs with the news segment at the start states the Mt. Sibo would kill the last remaining dinosaurs meaning Sorna has none left at least that's the belief. Sorna itself is acknowledge to prove that the JW films are not reboots but sequels to TLW and JP3.


JP3 is still largely hated. The main reason why the JW trilogy is hated is mainly due to its more dumbed-down bombastic tone. Also, if what you say is true, then why didn't hear about the Sorna population at the Congressional hearing part when the movie was beginning?


Again, fans shouldn't go to sites to "do their homework" before or after seeing a movie.

Those viral sites aren't for fans to "do their homework" but for fun. The films don't have to address the new information the sites include because for one they're made by fans not by the people making the films and two Trevorrow just approves of the what the fans working on the sites can write.

We are lucky FK even alluded to Sorna having no dinosaurs with that whole news bit at the start saying the volcano would wipe out the last remaining dinosaurs. Mills even briefly mentioned Sorna which means all the films are still connected.

But for general audiences they don't need to "do their homework" unless they really want the details and most general audiences don't. I'm just saying FK alluding to Sorna having no dinosaurs is better than nothing. Audiences can just come up with their own ideas.

You just seem to be cynical about everything Jurassic World related. Trevorrow may just love the original film from the original trilogy but he knows fans also love TLW and when he has the time he replies to fans on Twitter. Do most filmmakers do that?

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