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Oliphaunt
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:54 am

We have a bunch of Lambeosaurines from 70-66 mya, IIRC.

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:52 pm

@Oliphaunt wrote:
We have a bunch of Lambeosaurines from 70-66 mya, IIRC.

From what I've seen and read, only Hypacrosaurus was the one to have lasted until the bitter end and it's habitat was limited compared to Edmontosaurus.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:31 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Oliphaunt wrote:
We have a bunch of Lambeosaurines from 70-66 mya, IIRC.

From what I've seen and read, only Hypacrosaurus was the one to have lasted until the bitter end and it's habitat was limited compared to Edmontosaurus.

Hypacrosaurus : xx-67 ma
-two species of Lambeosaurinae indet. (Hell Creek-Ojo Alamo formations),
-Charonosaurus : xx-66 ma
-Sahaliyania : xx-66 ma
-Arenysaurus : xx-66 ma
-Blasisaurus : xx-66 ma
-Canardia : xx-66 ma
-Olorotitan : xx-66 ma
-Amurosaurus : xx-66 ma

So there are at least 8 species of lambeosaurines that survived until the K-Pg (source: Wikipedia).

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:43 pm

@Oliphaunt wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Oliphaunt wrote:
We have a bunch of Lambeosaurines from 70-66 mya, IIRC.

From what I've seen and read, only Hypacrosaurus was the one to have lasted until the bitter end and it's habitat was limited compared to Edmontosaurus.

Hypacrosaurus : xx-67 ma
-two species of Lambeosaurinae indet. (Hell Creek-Ojo Alamo formations),
-Charonosaurus : xx-66 ma
-Sahaliyania : xx-66 ma
-Arenysaurus : xx-66 ma
-Blasisaurus : xx-66 ma
-Canardia : xx-66 ma
-Olorotitan : xx-66 ma
-Amurosaurus : xx-66 ma

So there are at least 8 species of lambeosaurines that survived until the K-Pg (source: Wikipedia).

Wow, I didn't know that many survived. I've heard of Hypacrosaurus, Charonosaurus, and Ororotitan, and the unidentified HC one, but not the others. Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:44 pm

Not to mention that it seems like they were doing better in Asia than in N.A. at the time (more on that will likely be forthcoming but that was talked about at International Convention on Vertebrate Morphology). It seems that even looking back further into the Cretaceous that there was always a disparity in the niche of lambeosaurines and saurolophines which can be seen as far back as the Dinosaur Park Formation.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:54 pm

@Paleoman wrote:
Not to mention that it seems like they were doing better in Asia than in N.A. at the time (more on that will likely be forthcoming but that was talked about at International Convention on Vertebrate Morphology). It seems that even looking back further into the Cretaceous that there was always a disparity in the niche of lambeosaurines and saurolophines which can be seen as far back as the Dinosaur Park Formation.

What were those reasons? The climate and plant life in North America looks and seems reasonable enough to support a nice population of lambeosaurines to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:40 pm

It itsn't fully understood, but there seems to be a trend (at least in the Dinosaur Park & time equivalent formations) that Albertosaurines, Lambeosaurines, and Centrosaurines being found further north than Tyranosaurines, Saurolophines, and Chasmosaurines being found further south.

As the Cretaceous moved on, the southward families moved northward, and the Lambeosaurines became more rare, with the Albertosaurines going extinct and the Centrosaurines being restricted to asia. This probably relates to ecological preferences, and climactic changes caused a loss in the preferred Northern habitat (perhaps in relation to the closing of the Western Interior Seaway but that is anecdotal at best).
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:25 pm

@Paleoman wrote:
It itsn't fully understood, but there seems to be a trend (at least in the Dinosaur Park & time equivalent formations) that Albertosaurines, Lambeosaurines, and Centrosaurines being found further north than Tyranosaurines, Saurolophines, and Chasmosaurines being found further south.

As the Cretaceous moved on, the southward families moved northward, and the Lambeosaurines became more rare, with the Albertosaurines going extinct and the Centrosaurines being restricted to asia. This probably relates to ecological preferences, and climactic changes caused a loss in the preferred Northern habitat (perhaps in relation to the closing of the Western Interior Seaway but that is anecdotal at best).

Is it possible that the Tyrannosaurines, Saurolophines, and the Chasmosaurines were better parents and had a higher reproductive rate then the Albertosaurines (provided that Nanotyrannus really is a juvenile T. rex and not an Albertosaurine), Lambeosaurines, and Centrosaurines?
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:11 am

It's possible but there isn't any evidence for it either way. It's more likely that changing environments are what allowed one group to survive over the other.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:03 pm

Why did the amount of nodosaur species dwindle as the Cretaceous went on and why was Edmotonia so common despite that? I read that nodosaurs had a more picky diet, but that doesn't explain why Edmontonia was so common and had such a wide range from as far south as New Mexico and probably Texas to as up North as Canada and maybe Alaska.

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:07 pm

Competition with Ankylosaurids maybe? From what i've seen they started to diversify at the end of the early cretaceous. Perhaps they managed to take advantage of a food source that they couldn't and were able to out-compete them for resources, or had better defenses to protect themselves and their young. If their clubs really were used for defense but idk if there's reliable data on that. As for why Edmontonia was so common, my best guess is that they evolved to share their environment with their competition, there seem to be other Nodosaurids and Ankylosaurs wherever they're found, so perhaps they were doing their own thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:21 pm

Could ankylosaurs and nodosaurs gallop in spite of their armor?

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:09 pm

Unlikely because they had very short, stubby legs and very long, wide, and (relatively) inflexible torsos.

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:38 pm

Could Deinocheirus and Gigantoraptor use their hand claws for defense like the theriznosaurs did?

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:27 am

I've got no doubt that if they did have to fight, they'd probably use their claws to some degree, but as to how effective they'd be as weapons i don't know. In Deinocheirus's case i'd say it would use its body weight a bit a more and rely on intimidation. Most predators would be deterred by their sheer size. But most animals will try anything when it comes to a fight as long as they can do some damage.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:31 am

Another Deinocheirus question. Why did it adapt to being in a role that the theriznosaurs and hadrosaur already occupied? Sheer necessity?

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:37 pm

The sediments in the Nemegt formation suggest that it had a lot of resources, and it shows in the animals that live there. From what i can see there were two species of Sauropod, two species of large Hadrosaur, Therizinosaurus and Deinocheirus living in that environment together. Or at least migrating or dying there. My guess is Deinocheirus got that big because the resources were there and they could take advantage of them, and there was enough food in their environment to sustain all these different animals.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:19 pm

Was Alamosaurus the largest titanosaur known to have some form of body armor or is there another one that is larger then it that also has armor?

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:26 pm

Puertasaurus likely had spike-like armor as well, but Alamosaurus is the largest for which we've found them.

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:41 pm

How well could T. rex see in the dark via night hunting when compared to the raptors and troodonts?

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:47 pm

As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any study into archosaurian brain structure and night vision which would be the only good way of assessing and comparing that ability between dinosaurs. Sclerotic rings have been used to gauge night vision potential before but they have never been found with T.rex before. Of course that isn't to say they weren't there, but those bones don't have a high preservation potential especially in something as big as a T. rex.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:56 pm

@Paleoman wrote:
As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any study into archosaurian brain structure and night vision which would be the only good way of assessing and comparing that ability between dinosaurs. Sclerotic rings have been used to gauge night vision potential before but they have never been found with T.rex before. Of course that isn't to say they weren't there, but those bones don't have a high preservation potential especially in something as big as a T. rex.

I though there were a few scraps of bone that were thought to be from T. rex, but I don't know which specimen. I asked because if raptors and troodonts could hunt at night, then one would think that T. rex would have been able too.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:02 pm

I haven't heard of any, but there definitely could be some out there. That being said I can't think of a reason to imagine Tyrannosaurus couldn't hunt at night. I suppose it's more of a factor of when it primarily did its hunting.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:17 pm

Since Dryptosaurus is regarded as a primitive tyrannosaur, is it closer to the albertosaurines or the tyrannosaurines, or do we simply need more bones to find out?

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:59 pm

More bones would certainly help, but even more so what would be helpful is a better understanding of the global distribution and variety of Early Cretaceous Tyranosaurs.

The most recent 2016 analysis of Tyrannosauroid systematics used two analytical techniques which each found Dryptosaurus in a different position on the Tyrannosaur family tree. Curiously, the results of both tests are statistically supported within their given framework.

The more traditional test (parsimony analysis) found Dryptosaurus outside of Tyrannosauridae essentially making it eqaully distant from both Tyrannosaurines and Albertosaurines. The other test (Bayesian analysis) found that it was most closely related to the alioramins (eg. Alioramus, Qianzhousaurus), which are themselves members of the Tyrannosaurines.

So, depending on which analysis is correct, Dryptosaurus is either not closer to one or the other, or it is a Tyranosaurine. Confirmation of either hypothesis would need the recovery of more Dryptosaurus material, or more early Cretaceous material to see when and where the Alioramins and other primitive tyrannosaurs were appearing.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:54 am

I remember reading that some teeth that were classified as those of Dryptosaurus were found in North Carolina. What are the chances of finding a respectably complete/intact Dryptosaurus skeleton in North Carolina when compared to that of finding one in New Jersey? If Appalachiosaurus being found in northern Alabama happened, then finding another tyrannosaur in another southern state doesn't seem that unlikely to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:59 am

Well, looking into the gross geology of both states, New Jersey has proportionately more Cretaceous rocks than North Carolina. However, NJ is very small, and how the raw areas compare I am not sure.

In the end, I can't say which would be more likely aside from the fact that New Jersey is in Dryptosaurus's known range. That being said, Tyrannosaur species could have large ranges so it certainly wouldn't be out of the question to find good Dryptosaurus material in NC.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:30 am

What are the main differences between Albertosaurus and Gorgosaurus and can Gorgosaurus Libratus be reclassified as a species of Albertosaurus?

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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:46 pm

From Phillip Currie: Cranial Anatomy of Tyrannosaurids from Alberta (2003), "there are enough morphological differences to distinguish Albertosaurus from Gorgosaurus," Albertosaurus is more robust, has a "more ventrally oriented occipital condyle than in Gorgosaurus," the braincase box is wider than it is long, which is the opposite of Gorgosaurus, it has a more complex nasal-frontal sutures, among other features.

Also, the most recent evaluation of Tyranosaur systematics from 2016 treats them as distinct, so it seems unlikely that the two will be synonymized.
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PostSubject: Re: Ask a paleo question   Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:12 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
can Gorgosaurus Libratus be reclassified as a species of Albertosaurus?

Depends on whether you're a splitter or a lumper.

I would lump them but I need more information before I can make a strong opinion about it.
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