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 Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Thu May 18, 2017 10:31 pm

Saw Covenant. Liked it. Although if you're looking for tons of answers to questions brought up in Prometheus you aren't getting them. One major element of what the first Prometheus did right is thrown away in a way that feels cheap and insulting, and ultimately flat out disappointing. I won't say what it is without a spoiler tag though (I'll do a more in depth review tomorrow I'm tired lol).

Also there were moments in this film that made me question if Ridley is going crazy/senile, or if he's just trolling fans at this point. There were a few scenes straight out of a comedy that had the whole theater laughing so hard we were in tears. But it's supposed to be serious. Awkward and cringe worthy. 

Also if you were frustrated at the "Dumb" crew in Prometheus.... well, you haven't seen dumb yet at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Thu May 18, 2017 11:57 pm

@Troyal1 wrote:
Saw Covenant. Liked it. Although if you're looking for tons of answers to questions brought up in Prometheus you aren't getting them. One major element of what the first Prometheus did right is thrown away in a way that feels cheap and insulting, and ultimately flat out disappointing. I won't say what it is without a spoiler tag though (I'll do a more in depth review tomorrow I'm tired lol).

Also there were moments in this film that made me question if Ridley is going crazy/senile, or if he's just trolling fans at this point. There were a few scenes straight out of a comedy that had the whole theater laughing so hard we were in tears. But it's supposed to be serious. Awkward and cringe worthy. 

Also if you were frustrated at the "Dumb" crew in Prometheus.... well, you haven't seen dumb yet at all.

Doesn't sound like you liked it xD

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Fri May 19, 2017 12:08 am

@Tyrant Lizard wrote:
@Troyal1 wrote:
Saw Covenant. Liked it. Although if you're looking for tons of answers to questions brought up in Prometheus you aren't getting them. One major element of what the first Prometheus did right is thrown away in a way that feels cheap and insulting, and ultimately flat out disappointing. I won't say what it is without a spoiler tag though (I'll do a more in depth review tomorrow I'm tired lol).

Also there were moments in this film that made me question if Ridley is going crazy/senile, or if he's just trolling fans at this point. There were a few scenes straight out of a comedy that had the whole theater laughing so hard we were in tears. But it's supposed to be serious. Awkward and cringe worthy. 

Also if you were frustrated at the "Dumb" crew in Prometheus.... well, you haven't seen dumb yet at all.

Doesn't sound like you liked it xD

That's the funny thing lol. As negative and bad as it sounds I actually liked it quite a bit. Probably one of the best things I've seen this year. 

Have you ever seen a film where everything is going just fantastic. And it starts to get a bit dumb but it's still really good and you accept it. And then the director out of nowhere comes in and just kicks you in the balls a few times, gives you the finger randomly and leaves the room. 

And then the movie goes back to be being fairly decent IMO. Like there were things I loved about it and there were things that were so disappointing. I'm glad I just watched Prometheus last week, because if I had been waiting since 2012 for answers I would have walked out devastated.

Also Ridley Scott, what in the hell are doing putting vital scenes and clips on YouTube instead of the movie? 
I'll do an in depth review tomorrow if anyone cares to hear my opinion on the movie but I gotta sleep
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Fri May 19, 2017 8:36 am

I liked Covenant, but it has lots of problems and I still think the comics have handled the property much better. Now watch Scott ignore - Aliens - and come up with a whole new way to create eggs and a replacement for the Queen.

Sometimes I feel like he is taking the 'alien' element out of 'Alien' by making everything too connected to humans and / or basing things too much on our own fauna.

---

As for the new Predator movie. There are entire scripts breakdowns going around. It will be a very polarizing movie among hardcore fans, because it introduces a ton of new ideas.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Fri May 19, 2017 8:17 pm

Brad Jones didn't like Alien: Covenant. His friend, Dave, liked the first 2 acts, but hated the final 3rd act.


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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Fri May 19, 2017 9:25 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
Brad Jones didn't like Alien: Covenant. His friend, Dave, liked the first 2 acts, but hated the final 3rd act.


I liked the movie a lot but I pretty much agree with these guys on all fronts. The title gives it away. If you wanted to see a movie about 

Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat May 20, 2017 2:12 am

Well I still haven't seen Prometheus but I just saw Covenant. I'm in the middle on it.

Spoiler:
 

So yeah, I guess I have more dislikes about it, but I didn't walk out hating it. It just felt hollow. It feels like Scott is reaching for one last grab at glory and falling short. He's gone back and made the universe he had a hand in creating worse. If I enjoy Prometheus I might reconsider but this may be the first series I let my headcanon run wild and ignore what Scott is trying to set up.

5.5/10

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat May 20, 2017 11:35 am

@TheDreamMaster wrote:
Well I still haven't seen Prometheus but I just saw Covenant. I'm in the middle on it.

Spoiler:
 

So yeah, I guess I have more dislikes about it, but I didn't walk out hating it. It just felt hollow. It feels like Scott is reaching for one last grab at glory and falling short. He's gone back and made the universe he had a hand in creating worse. If I enjoy Prometheus I might reconsider but this may be the first series I let my headcanon run wild and ignore what Scott is trying to set up.

5.5/10

Considering how the AvP duelogy ruined both franchises for a while, wasn't itl going to be ret-conned out of both franchises anyway? Not only that, but I just don't see how Scott can get away with removing Aliens form the canon. That's far too popular. Not only that, but James Cameron is going to be directing Avatar 2 soon. You don't think that he'd raise all sorts of hell if Scott were to do something like that? I guarantee you, if that were to happen, then Cameron would fix the damage himself.It wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened. Look at how they let Bryan Singer ret-con X3: The Last Stand of out existence via Days Of Future Past and how Paramount is going to remove every Terminator movie made after T2 out of existence with a proper sequel to T2.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat May 20, 2017 12:29 pm

Ive been thinking of going to see this on monday or tuesday due to a busy schedule and seeing as theaters will be less crowded on weekdays

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat May 20, 2017 3:30 pm

@TheDreamMaster wrote:
Well I still haven't seen Prometheus but I just saw Covenant. I'm in the middle on it.

Spoiler:
 

So yeah, I guess I have more dislikes about it, but I didn't walk out hating it. It just felt hollow. It feels like Scott is reaching for one last grab at glory and falling short. He's gone back and made the universe he had a hand in creating worse. If I enjoy Prometheus I might reconsider but this may be the first series I let my headcanon run wild and ignore what Scott is trying to set up.

5.5/10

When you say "what the hell scott" you are talking about 
Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat May 20, 2017 3:56 pm

Originally (1st cut of the movie) both the neo and the xeno would

Spoiler:
 

So I guess this is where the neo vs xeno scene rumor came from.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat May 20, 2017 10:01 pm

Neomorph wrote:
Originally (1st cut of the movie) both the neo and the xeno would

Spoiler:
 

So I guess this is where the neo vs xeno scene rumor came from.

I'm not doubting you at all and I don't think you're lying. But may I have a link for this info? Was it filmed? Any chance we see it as a deleted scene?
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun May 21, 2017 12:03 am

I do not want anymore Ridley Scott Alien films.  I haven't felt this disappointed in anything in a long time. I think Covenant may have just killed my weekend.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun May 21, 2017 11:23 am

According to Box Office Mojo, the new Alien movie will just barely beat out Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol 2. but only by just under $1 million dollars.

That's pretty low for such a long running franchise. I didn't think it would struggle this much. It fells more like a semi-Pyrrhic victory if anything else. Next week, it's very possible that GOTG Vol 2. retakes that top spot given how divisive this movie has become. I wonder how much of it is because of how people have soured on Ridley Scott.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun May 21, 2017 12:08 pm

I'm surprised that so many people don't like Covenant. I thought it was phenomenal and a huge improvement on Prometheus while still being very much a sequel to it. If the film doesn't do well enough at the box office, then we're obviously not getting the five or six films Scott says he's gonna make. Considering Scott makes these films through his own company and is seen as a powerful force at studios though, I'm pretty sure we'll at least get one other film. And I really want another.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun May 21, 2017 3:59 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@TheDreamMaster wrote:
Well I still haven't seen Prometheus but I just saw Covenant. I'm in the middle on it.

Spoiler:
 

So yeah, I guess I have more dislikes about it, but I didn't walk out hating it. It just felt hollow. It feels like Scott is reaching for one last grab at glory and falling short. He's gone back and made the universe he had a hand in creating worse. If I enjoy Prometheus I might reconsider but this may be the first series I let my headcanon run wild and ignore what Scott is trying to set up.

5.5/10

Considering how the AvP duelogy ruined both franchises for a while, wasn't itl going to be ret-conned out of both franchises anyway? Not only that, but I just don't see how Scott can get away with removing Aliens form the canon. That's far too popular. Not only that, but James Cameron is going to be directing Avatar 2 soon. You don't think that he'd raise all sorts of hell if Scott were to do something like that? I guarantee you, if that were to happen, then Cameron would fix the damage himself.It wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened. Look at how they let Bryan Singer ret-con X3: The Last Stand of out existence via Days Of Future Past and how Paramount is going to remove every Terminator movie made after T2 out of existence with a proper sequel to T2.

First, I'd like to say I meant the AvP franchise as a whole, books, comics, video games. Second, I disagree the first film ruined either franchise, as it's mediocre but not bad. AvP:R is bad, but Predators came along not that long after and was a great film, and of course, Prometheus came like 10 years later which wasn't really another Alien film yet, but the Alien franchise is chugging back along for better or worse. (imho, worse.)

As for the Aliens thing, I mean, I'm just going to look at it like the Halloween films, where there is multiple timelines. In Scott's timeline, no Aliens, but in the other timelines, Aliens happens etc. Make sit easier for me to ignore the stupid origin Scott has created for the Aliens. I like them better as an ultimate being that mysteriously came to be in deep space at some point. None of what was revealed in Covenant did I like.

@Troyal1 wrote:
@TheDreamMaster wrote:
Well I still haven't seen Prometheus but I just saw Covenant. I'm in the middle on it.

Spoiler:
 

So yeah, I guess I have more dislikes about it, but I didn't walk out hating it. It just felt hollow. It feels like Scott is reaching for one last grab at glory and falling short. He's gone back and made the universe he had a hand in creating worse. If I enjoy Prometheus I might reconsider but this may be the first series I let my headcanon run wild and ignore what Scott is trying to set up.

5.5/10

When you say "what the hell scott" you are talking about 
Spoiler:
 

Yes, that scene. It took a horrifying scene in the original and made it almost comical .

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun May 21, 2017 5:35 pm

@Troyal1 wrote:
Neomorph wrote:
Originally (1st cut of the movie) both the neo and the xeno would

Spoiler:
 

So I guess this is where the neo vs xeno scene rumor came from.

I'm not doubting you at all and I don't think you're lying. But may I have a link for this info? Was it filmed? Any chance we see it as a deleted scene?

It was part of the original cut of the movie. You can read all about it here >>

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=57512.0
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun May 21, 2017 6:14 pm

@TheDreamMaster wrote:
Yes, that scene. It took a horrifying scene in the original and made it almost comical .
Spoiler:
 

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun May 21, 2017 6:31 pm



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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 22, 2017 5:56 pm

Here are the actual results according to Box Office Mojo.

Alien: Covenant: $36,160,621

Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 2 $34,653,754

Considering how the 5th Pirates Of The Caribbean movie comes out this Friday, I wouldn't be surprised if Covenant drops to 3rd place and GOTG Vol 2. overtakes it to go in second.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 22, 2017 7:08 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
Here are the actual results according to Box Office Mojo.

Alien: Covenant: $36,160,621

Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 2 $34,653,754

Considering how the 5th Pirates Of The Caribbean movie comes out this Friday, I wouldn't be surprised if Covenant drops to 3rd place and GOTG Vol 2. overtakes it to go in second.

And King Arthur will Probably go to spot 20. Lol

If that movie was actually good it's a huge shame.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 22, 2017 8:18 pm

It's worth mentioning that the budget is a lot less large than Prometheus. It's only about 97 million, so all it needs to do is make about 200 million to break even.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 22, 2017 8:44 pm

@evolution_rex wrote:
It's worth mentioning that the budget is a lot less large than Prometheus. It's only about 97 million, so all it needs to do is make about 200 million to break even.

I didn't LOVE covenant like you, but I certainly hope we get more. I really like Fassbender as David and Walter. 

The thing is though I can see him being forced to stick to a lower budget if it underperforms.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 22, 2017 8:47 pm

@evolution_rex wrote:
It's worth mentioning that the budget is a lot less large than Prometheus. It's only about 97 million, so all it needs to do is make about 200 million to break even.

Actually, Scott himself said that this movie had a $111 million dollar budget. So it needs at least $222 million, although $230 million would be ideal.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 22, 2017 9:05 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@evolution_rex wrote:
It's worth mentioning that the budget is a lot less large than Prometheus. It's only about 97 million, so all it needs to do is make about 200 million to break even.

Actually, Scott himself said that this movie had a $111 million dollar budget. So it needs at least $222 million, although $230 million would be ideal.
I wonder if Scott is taking marketing into account? I thought I read somewhere that it was around 20 million but don't quote me. But then he does say "we MADE it for 111 million " so that seems like he does mean production budget. 

Sometimes I wish these companies would just go ahead and add all the costs up and give us a rough estimate of what they are actually spending lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 22, 2017 9:22 pm

@Troyal1 wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@evolution_rex wrote:
It's worth mentioning that the budget is a lot less large than Prometheus. It's only about 97 million, so all it needs to do is make about 200 million to break even.

Actually, Scott himself said that this movie had a $111 million dollar budget. So it needs at least $222 million, although $230 million would be ideal.
I wonder if Scott is taking marketing into account? I thought I read somewhere that it was around 20 million but don't quote me. But then he does say "we MADE it for 111 million " so that seems like he does mean production budget. 

Sometimes I wish these companies would just go ahead and add all the costs up and give us a rough estimate of what they are actually spending lol.

I'm actually surprised that the marketing budget was that low. Considering how this was how the Xenomorph's got made and how this was also the big 'comeback movie' for the franchise, I expected a $40 million marketing budget.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 22, 2017 9:35 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Troyal1 wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@evolution_rex wrote:
It's worth mentioning that the budget is a lot less large than Prometheus. It's only about 97 million, so all it needs to do is make about 200 million to break even.

Actually, Scott himself said that this movie had a $111 million dollar budget. So it needs at least $222 million, although $230 million would be ideal.
I wonder if Scott is taking marketing into account? I thought I read somewhere that it was around 20 million but don't quote me. But then he does say "we MADE it for 111 million " so that seems like he does mean production budget. 

Sometimes I wish these companies would just go ahead and add all the costs up and give us a rough estimate of what they are actually spending lol.

I'm actually surprised that the marketing budget was that low. Considering how this was how the Xenomorph's got made and how this was also the big 'comeback movie' for the franchise, I expected a $40 million marketing budget.

Now I could be totally wrong on that.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Tue May 23, 2017 2:12 am

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Troyal1 wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@evolution_rex wrote:
It's worth mentioning that the budget is a lot less large than Prometheus. It's only about 97 million, so all it needs to do is make about 200 million to break even.

Actually, Scott himself said that this movie had a $111 million dollar budget. So it needs at least $222 million, although $230 million would be ideal.
I wonder if Scott is taking marketing into account? I thought I read somewhere that it was around 20 million but don't quote me. But then he does say "we MADE it for 111 million " so that seems like he does mean production budget. 

Sometimes I wish these companies would just go ahead and add all the costs up and give us a rough estimate of what they are actually spending lol.

I'm actually surprised that the marketing budget was that low. Considering how this was how the Xenomorph's got made and how this was also the big 'comeback movie' for the franchise, I expected a $40 million marketing budget.

I think they wanted to hide it's the origin of the Xeno, since the origin Scott came up with is mind numbingly stupid.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Wed May 24, 2017 8:55 pm

This article from Collider basically says that the Alien prequels are a failure.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Wed May 24, 2017 10:10 pm

I'm going to be honest, I didn't see Alien Covenant yet but damn does the origin story for the xenomorphs sound piss poor. A droid, who is upset with humans creates the "ultimate life form"? I'm not sure how anyone else feels/felt about this but it seems to me like Ridley is smoking some strong stuff here if he thinks that can fly as an origin story. The fact that they were essentially man made sucks a lot of the "mystique" out of them and I think that's one of the things that made them great in Alien/Aliens.

I feel like Ridley is really reaching high for this one. Would an original plot that isn't corny (cough cough Alien 4 cough cough) or just plain outlandish (like this movie) be too much to ask from Fox at this point? Hell, Alien: Isolation the video game handled the plot well and I would have gladly accepted something like that despite the numerous Alien tropes that are there (dodgy androids, maniacal AI, company who thinks they can control the alien).

At this point it's almost like any realistic hope for this to redeem itself in a way befitting the first two movies is out the window. Will it be terrible? No, but after Ridley is done with his little prequel trilogy, it's time for Fox to nuke whatever is left and start clean and fresh with a reboot. This time try to stick to one director who has a vision for the films, keep to an overarching plot, and show intriguing details about the xenomorphs that makes them even more interesting/terrifying (the way Aliens gave us a window into their breeding/life cycle) while still keeping them mainly shrouded in mystery.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   

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